Something new: "high-value" eBay claims...

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by -jeffB, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I just got a surprise -- a bad one, at first blush, but now I'm not so sure.

    I "won" two slabbed double eagles a week or so ago, at a total cost of a bit over $3K. A US seller who'd listed a fair amount of Egyptian coinage and a few $1000 notes listed a single auction with six slabbed double eagles, took it down, and then started listing the same coins individually. One or two of them went before I could get to them, I bought two, and the rest went fairly quickly -- the last one took a few hours more.

    When I received the package, it was a padded envelope containing a folded newspaper, and nothing else. Sigh -- not entirely surprising, but eBay's got my back via Buyer Protection.

    When I went to open a case, I couldn't find a way to do it other than as "request a return", which I did. As expected, I got no response from the seller in the specified timeframe.

    I called eBay tonight, explained the situation, and was transferred to their "high-value claims" department. That's new; previously, I've gone through the normal channels, even for claims close to $10K.

    The high-value claims person was efficient and personable, and explained that I would need to file a police report before they could proceed with the refund process.

    I was taken aback by this. Previously, BP had covered me with little effort on my part. It's not too far to my nearest police station, but it's a time-consuming extra step, and an annoyance. I asked if this was standard now for high-value claims, and the rep said it's actually a requirement now for ALL empty-box claims, even down to $25.

    As I thought about it, I simmered down a bit. I've wondered often what's to protect a seller from buyers who order an item, receive it, then claim that they didn't. This introduces a degree of friction into that kind of scam -- doesn't prevent it, I think, but raises the stakes and stress for low-lifes who would want to take advantage of the system.

    So, I guess I'll get to visit the local constabulary, and try to explain to them why they should care about my mail-order woes. I'm annoyed that I have to do this, but it does make me a little more willing to consider selling similar stuff there.

    Anybody else run into this? I'm wondering how new the policy is...
     
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  3. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Why the local cops? Shouldn't the postal authorities be alerted, as this is mail fraud? I'd call tomorrow and speak with a different person. Sounds like the initial contact doesn't know what they're talking about..........
     
  4. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Y'know, I think that's the single best thing they could do to combat false "not received" reports.

    Except it's mail fraud, not theft, and the charge needs to be filed in the seller's jurisdiction, not yours....

    Typical Ebay. Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside.
     
    rooman9, C-B-D and Nathan401 like this.
  5. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Motor City Car Capital

  6. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    And Postal employees know what is in a lot of packages vis a vis the ebay invoice shipping label.
     
  7. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    I worked at UPS for thirty years.........we knew what was in the packages, but the company relied upon us to complete delivery without any hassles...........still, there are many 'bad eggs' out there. Just need to 'round them up' and in the end, they are 'rounded up'.
     
    tommyc03 likes this.
  8. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    To be clear, there's no sign that anybody ever opened this package, and another buyer has already left negative feedback describing exactly the same experience.
     
  9. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king.

    Sure about that? Wouldn't you want the seller to have to travel to YOUR jurisdiction, should it come to that, instead of the other way around?
     
  10. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    If you play, sometimes you pay...

    If anything I would say that, at the least, eBay is trending in the right direction. If it does any good remains to be seen though.
     
  11. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    It is true. The crime was committed when the package was sealed up and mailed. Therefore it needs to be reported where the crime took place. It's not a matter of convenience or trying to get the thief to travel to your location. It's a matter of the facts of the crime.
     
  12. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    This is one change in eBay policy that I applaud. As mentioned it isn't perfect but at least now eBay requires something other then their "word" before refunding large amounts of money.

    In general your local jurisdiction has no authority to arrest someone in another, they can request they are expedited but it is a process and most states won't bother unless it is what they consider a serious issue. For this specific case as mentioned no crime was committed in his local jurisdiction therefore all they could really do is sympathize with his situation
     
  13. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    I agree if Ebay told you to file a police report, go ahead and file it. I think it's a reasonable request, especially since you definitely want your money back. Good luck to you! thumb.gif
     
  14. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    I think it's brilliant that they started doing this. If a fraudster want's to try to scam you, they will be forced to commit yet another crime by filing a false police report. This at the very least will stop a lot of the would be scammers.
     
  15. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king.

    I guess that makes sense, for criminal charges.

    I was just thinking back to when I had a similar (mail fraud) issue with someone in another state and took them to small claims court. They didn't show up and judgment was made in my favor. I've also seen contracts, etc... which state that there jurisdiction is where any litigation will take place in the event of a breach of said contract, etc...., but that is an apples to oranges comparison.
     
  16. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Well, it took me a while to reach someone in the police department who wasn't as baffled by this as the rest of us, but an officer did come out to interview me, inspect the package, and take down the pertinent details. I'll still have to make a trip downtown to pick up a copy of the report.

    It's not an unreasonable amount of effort to reclaim $3K+, but it is a big change from filling in a few Web forms. If this change is in response to abusive/fraudulent buyers, I hope it works.
     
  17. jrs146

    jrs146 Active Member

    I agree I think this is a good idea. I've sold many high value items on eBay and I've always been scared about a buyer claiming I sent them a box of rocks, especially considering that eBay's policies favor the buyer. This adds a new element that could detour people from trying to scam the system. Yes it's a pain for the buyer, but if indeed someone was scammed it's important to file a police report. Insurance companies work the same way. My insurance protects against "stolen" jewelry. You bet your butt that they would make you file a police report before they pay.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. Jay Kaplan

    Jay Kaplan New Member

    I was also scammed by the same coin seller on E-Bay. I bought a $20 gold eagle, and received a soft envelope filled with only newspaper. I filed a complaint to E-Bay under the money back guarantee and was told I needed to file a police report. I went to the local precinct and was told that this was a civil matter the police couldn't help. I had an E-Bay high claims rep talk to the police officer directly and the officer explained why it was not a police matter. The rep advised me to go to a deputies office who would handle the paperwork (I live in a major city). In the end I have confidence that the problem will be solved although it may take a bit of time. I might have to go back and get some paperwork from the police which will say nothing but "I saw the envelope and the newspaper"? Maybe, I ll need to take E-bay to court? I'm a bit perplexed that since at least 4 buyers bought coins from the seller on the same day all produced the same negative feedback that I must jump through hoops to settle this matter.

    I suspect that E-Bay is dealing with more frauds than ever before. If this is the case I can certainly understand their position. From my side, I suspect that I have made my last coin transaction on E-bay.
     
  19. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    This happened to me on my very fist claim filed a few years ago. I sold a toy robot for around $550 that was working fine. The seller wanted to return it a week or two after getting it and when I got it back it kept rolling in circles when you turned him on instead of in a straight line. They insisted the condition was the same as sent so I called eBay and they told me to file a police report and to call them back so I went to the police station and they told me it was a civil matter and they couldn't help me. I called eBay back and told them and they asked for the phone number to the specific station and who I spoke to. I gave them the information and never heard back from them but did get a refund a few days later. I thought this was SOP since it was my first time anything like this happened but I was never asked to file a police report again.

    Edit: I see the post above me is similar to my experience. I bet it is just eBay seeing if the buyer is willing to take it to such exrreems or not
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
  20. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    I think maybe it's just to see if the buyer is willing to go that far as a litmus test to see if they are telling the truth.
     
  21. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    Guaranteed that eBay knows this is a civil matter and police will tell buyers as much. Like I said, this happened to me around 2012 and I'm sure it's happened to many others since so they know damn well it's a civil matter and no report can be filed
     
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