Someone reneged in the second-to-last Numismatik Naumann auction

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Restitutor, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. BenSi

    BenSi Supporter! Supporter

    It was NN, but biddr sent the email.

    I can only assume the issue that happened years ago was to protect a seller, since then all orders went well. I bought some nice coins from them and I do still recommend them for business.
     
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  3. 1865King

    1865King Well-Known Member

    What your describing happens more often than you think. If an item has a reserve on it and the reserve is not met then the coin isn't sold even if you think you were the high bidder. In most cases the lot would be listed with a reserve. Usually, they will post the reserve amount before the auction. Which is fair.

    Then there is a method which I think has happed based on the comments. This is where there is either a hidden reserve or the auction house pushes the bid price up during the auction by either the owner bidding on his own coins to drive the price up or the auction house does it for the consigner. In this method the owner has a minimum price they will accept but, doesn't want to post it as a reserve because in most cases a bidder can be turned off just because someone put in a high reserve. So all they're hoping for is one person to place a bid at their reserve. Somewhat slimy but, works sometimes.

    I first saw this happen at an auction 20 years ago and it was done to me. I went to my first major auction with the intent on bidding on just one coin. I sat waiting for the coin I wanted for about two hours. Then when it came up I had a maximum amount I would pay for it in my mind. As the bidding started a number of people and I were bidding on the coin. Then when only one guy and me were left bidding we continued bidding against each other but, I notice the person never put his head up to look at the auctioneer he just put his card up every time I bid. Right before I hit my limit I realized what was happening so stopped bidding. That person "won" the lot I wanted. I was a little pissed off on loosing to him but something just didn't seem right. Less than 6 months later the coin came up again at one of their future auctions so I placed my originally planned maximum bid on the coin and actually won it for that price. Since that time I've noticed the same thing happening fairly often. Some times a coin will come up again a few months later and then sometimes within a year. At first I thought that someone won more coins than they really could afford and tried to recover some money by selling some of the ones they won but, today I know that's not the case. What their doing is not illegal but, crappy anyway.
     
  4. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    I don’t understand why people would sell something with a hidden reserve. Why not just start the bidding at reserve then if the coin consignor doesn’t accept anything less than reserve? Seems like a waste of time for the auction house otherwise.
     
    chuck123 likes this.
  5. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    Hanky Panky?
     
  6. Archeocultura

    Archeocultura Well-Known Member

    When you look up a coin on Acsearch, it often happens it is shown multiple times and you can see the prices it went for - indeed with very little time in between te auctions. It becomes even weirder to see the coin offered at different auction houses, using the same photograph! They are then pushing up the price slowly but certainly.

    Frans
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  7. Andrew McCabe

    Andrew McCabe Well-Known Member

    Hahaha

    No problem with Naumann revoking my bidding privileges
     
    dougsmit and DonnaML like this.
  8. Andrew McCabe

    Andrew McCabe Well-Known Member

    Multiple instances of Naumann not fulfilling a sale contract (coin previously sold / lost / whatever) then item concerned being reoffered by them.
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  9. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    I've never bought a coin from NN, but it does seem that I have a couple that are ex. Gitbud & Naumann, apparently NN's predecessor. I gather that G&N had a reputation of being more reliable.
     
  10. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    I was a regular fan of Gitbud/Naumann and got several nice coins with no problems. I used N&N once. I don't even remember what the problem was but there are too many sellers to be forgiving of some things.
     
    The Trachy Enjoyer and DonnaML like this.
  11. svessien

    svessien Senior Member Supporter

    There were quite a lot of coins withdrawn from that auction. It would be a good idea for the people at Naumann to send out an explanation here. I just got an email stating that the auction was a great success.

    I’ve bought a lot of coins from both G/N and NN. Never had any problems, but I try to avoid buying from dealers that use DHL for shipping.
     
  12. 1865King

    1865King Well-Known Member

    They do this with the hope that the coin will bring a price above what their minimum price they will take. A reserve being posted can sometimes work against the coin being sold. A lot of people will bid on a coin without a reserve thinking they have a chance of winning it cheap. Then when the coin comes up at the auction the hope is that a bidding war could take place. It's a competition just like a sport when winning means everything. Why do you think you see some very high prices on coins that have been auctioned off whereas if they simply post a price for a coin on a price list for less than what the coin could have sold at an auction it sits there with no buyers. This is why coins are auctioned and not just advertised on a price list. I am mainly speaking of truly rare or scarce coins. This can be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Also you need to keep in mind that the auction houses are working for the person selling the coin. They don't work for the bidders. This is why you will never see a coin sold at an auction much below market value. Again I'm speaking of rare or scarce coins. No creditable auction house will sell someone's coins way below market value. They will loose customers (consigners) real quick. This is one of the reasons I believe you see some very high prices for modern coins.
     
    Andrew McCabe likes this.
  13. MarcosX

    MarcosX Active Member

    I would say something about Naumann but my mom told me if I dont have anything nice to say..........
     
  14. 1865King

    1865King Well-Known Member

    One last point about auctions. Not really related to the question originally posted. There can be an advantage with buying coin at an auction. And that relates to the quality of the coins. Again in my earlier post this relates to scarce to rare coins. All major auction companies usually have available prices and picture of similar coins (date / type) they auctioned in the past. Because of this you can get a good idea on the quality and price similar coins sold for in the past. This is a great feature. You will learn really fast that most price lists have prices listed that are higher than what coins are actually selling for. However, for truly rare coins you can take those price lists and through them in the trash. When there is a low population these coins don't sell often. I have an extremely rare large cent according the price list the price hasn't changed in over 15 years. What that is telling me is that if my coin should ever end up at a major auction there is a very good possibility that my large cent could sell for multiple times above any price guide.
     
  15. Andrew McCabe

    Andrew McCabe Well-Known Member

    An interesting unpacking of the difference between price lists, price guides, auctions, auction results, and the psychology of bidding at auction rather than buying at retail.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021 at 1:08 AM
  16. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    Well, based off the prices currently for the coins and the fact the auction is still ~19 days away, looks like this theory is going to prove out. So much activity already, wouldn’t surprise me if someone put in bids at prior hammer +1 or +2 from the outset. What a crazy, crazy market.
     
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