Someone please explain this grade to me!

Saw this today. PCGS, no guessing, it's a MS64, straight grade. How?

 

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Are there any more Pics? I think some of the scratches are on the holder. Hard to see through that and the dark "toning".
Need to see the reverse as well in my opinion.

 

I knew someone was going to ask for that.




The reverse looked fine. You might be right about it being the holder. It looks like cleaned, or worse, scratched. There was no mention about the holder being scratched. There is no way I'd buy that if it was on the face of the coin, graded or not. In fact, I would not buy it with it being just scratches on the plastic, that just burns into your eyeballs and ruins an otherwise handsome coin.

 

Maybe they should have read our post on fixing scratches in plastic. Shhh. It's a secret.

 

I have not seen that before. Link? Nevermind, I found one link going back to 2009. The secret remains safe.

 

I don't understand - this is your coin or one you were going to buy? Is that an ebay photo or something?

 

Here we go, again.
Have you examined the piece in hand?
You are able to decipher a MS piece from a photo?
What standards were lowered, specifically, as relates to the imaged piece in this Thread?

Is it maybe...just a little.... possibility that IF it is indeed post mint "scratches" on the piece, that it was simply human error, or maybe a label error?

Ever since I have been on CT, your constant repetition of anything opinion graded by any TPG or 4PG entity is criticized.

It is silly, and of little value to anyone that wants to learn and understand.

 

No way was I going to buy it. I was just surfing coins on the Bay up for sale and auction. It's interesting, like going to a coin show. Clear photos help the brain learn what TPGs look for in a coin for a particular grade. That being said, just obtaining a certain grade does not blow my skirt up. It only matters in the event of resale, because all MS64s are not created equally. That goes for any TPG grade. I saved another toned coin that made me laugh. I'll post in another thread at some point. I love this place, lots of good discussion and the opportunity to share, show and tell with other collectors.

 

Thank you for your reply. So I'm not crazy after all, if those scratches are not on the holder. Definitely won't get a green bean.

 

What's the cert number?

 

Maybe the slab needs to be replaced.

 

@Barney McRae as an educational exercise, what indications are you seeing that its cleaned? Detecting cleaning is a weakness of mine and this one at least clears the little bit that I know.

 

It is not possible to determine from the posted image, and without examination of the piece in hand, impossible to definitively state the coin has been cleaned

The image does not "clear" anything on any level of scrutiny.

 

You're right to judge it for yourself and move on, specially if the seller is too lazy to look at their own image with a discerning eye and tell you whether the scratches are on the holder or not. PCGS probably spent 30 seconds looking at it, and they're not the infallible grading service they claim to be.

I put this one in my watch list on Heritage for this very reason. MS61, yet clearly cleaned and badly scratched. The only excuse I can think of is that it's a key date (and maybe a big dealer) so they let it slide. Of course we can post examples of this ad infinitum.

 

I refuse to believe that the graders at PCGS saw that and simply ignored it. Without an in hand inspection, it is hard to tell what they are thinking. Are the lines raised? If so they could be die scratches. They could be roller marks that weren't completely eliminated by the strike, making them fall into the category of remnant planchet roughness. I have seen this before in the same place on the chin/cheek



For some reason, my brain thinks this effect is common on 21-D Morgans, but I can't seem to find an example in Heritage's database.

 

Couple of things to keep in mind:

1. Photographic technique, especially lighting, can have a dramatic effect on the appearance of a coin in a photo.

2. Technical grade and eye appeal can be at odds. Scratches scattered about in the field may have little effect on eye appeal but will affect the technical grade. Put those same scratches close together on the portrait cheek, and eye appeal goes way down, but technical grade is about the same.

Cal

 

unfortunately, I did not save it in a watch list. I can't find it now. I just copied the file of the obverse for discussion and moved on. It was an 84 O, wasn't interested in the coin, have several in mint state of that date and mint. But the scratches just jumped out at me.

What is more interesting than the original question...........I used their filters for that date and mint and grade in looking for it. It's shocking how much disparity in eye appeal and crispness across the board there is in the same year and grade from PCGS. Every coin is somewhat unique, but some are "more equal than others", to steal a quip from Orwell.
I actually found one that is a real beauty and very lowly priced for the year and grade. If someone wants it, go and get it. I'm actually sorry I already have too many of this mint/date.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335547351297?_nkw=morgan+silver+dollar&itmmeta=01J7M399SW6VWZTSPNED4G716F&hash=item4e202e4101:g:Gz4AAOSwOTZmy5nw&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKnCu8BapNXNEPQ9rLWBAmbq01paDySMo6O3HLgGP+OkqjZ33V30xBdrAt8DpcfPuncTpO589A+uY9E0RxYNUciDV3G2SJpIAtPxwKr/MKV38RaXwDbUr2eDZpEf6tzWbxapmIoCgqnzelGtYQwkhBr4Q9d7Svhpy165QYWVfBYRzbvhWE29VjZRr2c5JfjgWqgsvhVv35gU6GG7CtQRI8YDEWq3aqXgfxPePehTSBodfSpRrRWkSMwcQIwnvKR7h/w=|tkp:Bk9SR4adpYO9ZA

 

I can't say for sure because I did not look at PCGS photograde. Sometimes they have photos, sometimes they do not. The coin either got sold or pulled, I can't find it now. However, if you are on a laptop, click on the image in the first post and blow it up. There are vertical lines of some kind across the cheek and in the field. Now I wish I had saved it in my watchlist.

 

With all those scratches, if it is MS I would be closer to 62.