Somebody please humor me.

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The one caveat I would make Doug is to say "black cannot change naturally". You can, (and it has been done, I saw it), dip in a diluted substance with the hope of knocking off layers of gloosy charcoal to get it back to a red or purple. This is only successful if it is glossy charcoal or early black, and even then extremely hard to control and frequently leads to a full dip anyway. It was called "lightening" back in the day, trying to keep a pretty tone that was too dark. Most dealers would just dip, but a friend, (acquaintance really), liked the colors but not too dark. He would take a coin like the silver dollar posted, (if the coin was all dark like the dark spot on this coin), and try to get it back to purple, reds, and greens. I just want to reiterate that I saw a couple successfully "lightened", but many more were not possible and were just dipped. Of course he would retone them, but that is another story.

So, its possible I guess, but of course but not natural by any means. I am still curious as to what Dimefreak is referring to. Are you referring to what I describe Dimefreak, or a coin naturally reverting back to colors from black on its own?

 

I am still unsure what color "charcoal black" is referring to. Since the color films ( specifically silver I assume, as that was not indicated in the OP ) are from mainly silver-sulfide reactions, and the layer's thickness determines the refraction gradient's color, the only way a color can change is from a change in that thickness. Here is a reference with the colors arranged in sequence according to the film thickness.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=716279

Once black is reached, the only way it can change is if layers are lessened in thickness, such as chemically by a thiourea/acid dip, although there are less probable mechanisms. Outside of a lab I would not expect that to occur "naturally", although like with AT/NT arguments, the idea of "natural" can vary.

 

Nobody believes you because it defies the laws of physics. We have provided you with the information you asked for yet you continue to ignore it. Toning is a thin film interface which forms as a result of oxidation. As the silver sulfide layer increases in thickness, the colors of the patina change. Charcoal gray and black are the final stages of the color progression. There is no possible way to go back to any other color unless you remove some of the silver sulfide layer. The only known way to accomplish that is to dip the coin. Since you have repeatedly stated that you don't dip coins, what you are claiming becomes impossible. Furthermore, you claim that you have done it plenty of times. What does that mean exactly? Are you a coin doctor? If you are doing something to the coin, then the process that you are describing is not a natural one.

The reason people claim you have a beef with me is because this is not the first time you have started an argument and gotten personal. Referring to me as the Grand Pupa would be insulting if you didn't spell it wrong. I have seen it spelled Grand Pooba, Grand Poobah, and Grand Puba, but never Grand Pupa. As for not caring about what I do, this thread is evidence to the contrary and clearly shows a high level of jealousy. You want others to take you seriously but then you make comments that show how little you know about toned coins. So you don't rank me in the top 10 huh? Guess what, I don't rank myself in the top 100. I know of at least 10 classic commemorative collections alone that put my collection to shame. Having said that, the majority of my collection consists of toned coins with outstanding eye appeal. For you to claim that you are not impressed with them and that you would not want them in your collection is an absolute joke. You purchased two raw Mercury Dimes from me earlier this year.

Is that what is bothering you. You posted a coin and I posted one that is similar in appearance and you think it is somehow insulting that I dare compare my MS66 paper weight to your "staple". I will freely admit that your coin is nicer than mine. Does that make you happy. In case you are not aware, calling someone else's coins dreck is rude. I could care less if you are impressed with my coins and I sincerely wish that you would stop following me around this forum.

We have answered your question several times. There is no phenomenon! This isn't a magic trick. The laws of physics dictate that what you are describing is not possible without outside intervention.

 

"charcoal black" is the term being used for the greyish black tint before deep black is reached. Maybe it is a misnomer. I was referring to the color on the silver dollar posted, that light form of black to distinguish it from the hard black which is the end of the line for toning.

What you just stated is what I was referring to Desertgem. Removing layers of toning is POSSIBLE, just hard to do. This is what they called lightening. A quick dip in diluted dipping solution makes it possible. Its just very hard to control, and most of the time it becomes ruined in my experience and has to have a regular dip anyway. Its very common when trying to do this to expose a weird color, like the AT toned coins on Ebay kind of color. I do not know why or how, but if you take a dark purple coin and do this sometimes you get unnatural looking rainbow colors, like a brilliant green. I don't know if it was caused by a reaction with the dip or they were naturally there. I just know when it happened it looked so unnatural you would just dip the coin white.

 

Lehigh, please change your tag photo, I can't get past that on your posts. I just stare at it. Me want it

 

Exactly how have you done it? And before and after pictures would be nice. Kind of like this thread here.

 

Thinking about this, I realize that electrolytic reactions can reverse such heavy tonings, but even if this involves salt and aluminum foil, etc. it is not a natural event as it is artificially concocted, and I suspect if a coin was placed in a sulfide free reducing atmosphere it could also revert very very slowly due to chemical equilibrium, but again I think that is a lab situation.

 

I took the liberty of removing your link and inserting the photo of my walker so that everyone can see them side by side. I have also taken the liberty of finding your coin in Heritage's auction archives.

Walking Liberty Half Dollar 1934 PCGS MS67 CAC $1,150

It really is amazing what a quality photograph can do for your coin. Unfortunately, I don't have Mark Goodman on staff like Disruptek. Now my coin cost me $400 and you consider a $1,200 coin a staple of anyone's collection. We can be sure that you paid much higher than the $1,150 Heritage price tag, but does that make it a staple, because you paid a premium price for an attractively toned coin?

I wonder if we will get a response or just more tumbleweeds?

 

go on youtube and punch in eli's dirty jokes if they dont make you laugh nothing will lol

 

Wow, where do you keep getting the impression that the other walker is mine? I never once stated that did I?

 

Also some people have a life outside of the forums. Unfortunately me and my wife have been mourning her recent miscarriage. If you dont beleive me I can scan the discharge papers

 

And I would know that if you had provided a link to the thread that you quoted which is common forum courtesy. But that begs the question. If the walker is not even yours, why would it bother you that I compared the two coins. I never made a comment about the quality of the coins being the same. I simply said they looked the same. A normal person would interpret that to mean they have a similar toning pattern, which they do!

 

Dont worry I will make a informative thread in my spare time that should prove to be quite educational to you based on the knowledge you have recently displayed.

 

Says the guy who thinks black toned coins can turn into beauties! What a joke you are. How long have you been collecting coins? My guess is 3 months.

 

Toned walkers at 20 paces?



I think you guys just need to bury the hatchet. It's getting a bit old.

 

Troll