Some recent purchases

At last i got myself some French coins!


I still dunno what this is (or even if it's genuine, what's it with the 'u' in Louis?) that i have to admit i didn't notice at first. How i dunno.

I don't actually know what it is but i like it.

Only info i have is what came with it, "1777H France, Liard La Rochelle 'H', VG348, KM585.6" (£30)

GD hopefully can fill in the blanks here?



I also got this...

Louis XVI (also) 1783A Dixieme D'Ecu, VG353, KM568.1 (£35)





I honestly like both. Dunno what value they should be though, or if i paid too much, wouldn't be surprised if i did, i don't really care either.

 

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Nice coins. I'm glad to see you expanding your horizons and especially glad to see you venturing into coppers.

I'm sure you'll be glad to hear this. Today I started a silver box. It's a small version of your silver jar. It's got lots of empty space.

 

As GD did not address your query on this, perhaps you can clarify what you see as being wrong with the `U' ?

As an aside, during the 1700's, France had a total of 22 mints active at some point or another throughout the country. The mint mark (normally a letter) can be found underneath the point of the shield on the reverse. They are usually upside down in relation to the legend as is readily seen with the `A' (Paris) mint. La Rochelle is a sea port with lots of history behind it.

 

The U in LUDOV, It looked a bit wonky. One thing i always look out for with counterfuiets is how well the lettering is spaced out and how it relates to each other. As you might be able to maske out it's like this...

LU (Sloping to the left followed by quite a big gap in relation to the rest) DOV

LU DOV or is it supposed to be like that? I mean if they punch the letters in by hand a slip can happen.

 

Oh i didn't do too bad then!

Anyhow you must have noticed me branching into German coins, no?

 

The dies were different at each mint, and sometimes the lettering in the legends could have been arranged / spaced a bit better than they turned out. Your coin is not particularly unusual in this respect. During that period some spacings are all over the place.

 

Right well i thought that might be the case but this is a totally new area for me. But i like both of them and i do want to get some more on day.

I love the copper one, but the silver one has caught my attention, have you access to a Krause listing the dates coins of this denomination were minted. I feel a date set coming on.

 

Personally, knowing your interests, I think you could really get yourself into the different small silver coins ranging from the ones first issued by Louis XIII in 1642 through to Louis XVI.

These copper liards are a nice series to collect and like most coppers, can be stunning in high grades, but they tend to be flat and lifeless in the lower grades. It would be a really expensive task to get a date / mint mark set in VF or better. Strangely enough, the small copper coinage of the 1600's (denier tournois and double tournois) can often be found at relatively cheap prices, ie a few quid, (if you keep your eyes peeled).

The dixieme ecu (1/10th or 12 sols) would be quite a series to collect given the dates available and some 23 mints issuing them at various times. It is do-able, but.... They commenced with Louis XV in 1716.

The series I have a little more passion for are the douzieme ecu's (1/12th or 10 sols). These commenced with Louis XIII in 1642 and carried through to Louis XV until 1723. It's pretty difficult getting hold of coinage bearing Louis XIII's portrait at the best of times but from my limited experience the 1/12th is the most do-able other than the double tournois.

You might be more taken with the idea of obtaining an example of coins like the 1/48th, 1/24th.etc before settiling on a choice of series.

If you want photocopies of any relevant KM pages for `educational purposes' the law does allow. ;-)

There are four pages from 1601-1700 and three pages from 1701-1800 covering the 1/12th and the 1/10th. The relevant pages on mint marks and privy marks from each catalogue would also be a`must have' for you if you did get into collecting these coins.

 

I was thinking of just the Louis XVI ones, i could probably get carried away right back knowing me, but supply of these coins is a little erm 'restrictive' you might say.

I was thinking perhaps tackling just one mint and a date run of Louis XVI ones, so say in this case we have La Rochelle, usually i tend to go for the big mints and ignore the smaller ones. I suspect that they minted coins in Paris and thus the Paris mint would be the one i'd generally go for.

Same with my sixpences and the sovereigns when i collected those, it was always London mint only.

 

As I mentioned in my last response to you, your silver 1/10th IS Paris mint (`A' mint mark in the legend just under the shield on the reverse).

The dates for Paris mint are recorded as:

1775,6,7,8/7,8,8* (*= a dot under third letter on legend denoting second semestre / second part of the regnal year coinage),9*,
1780,0*,1,2,3,4,5,6*,7,8,9 and 1790 (last reported date of issue)

In addition there are also three dates with error legends (LVD.XV as opposed to LVD. XVI), those being 1784, 1785/4 and 1786.

The 87,88, and 90 are only `reported' mint years according to KM and as yet unconfirmed. I've no literature that says otherwise, but that means little.

 

Ha yes, you did! Sorry about that.

Hmm 19 to get hey? I'll consider this one, it could take a fair while to get these.

 

18 or maybe less, even better!

I like short sets.

 

I tried to stick solely to dates for Paris mint, in keeping with Syl's objectives .

However, now you mention it although 1790 is not `confirmed' for Paris in my copy of KM it is for Bayonne (`L') Mint and states it as minting 1/10ths in each of years 1777,80,83,and 90. Mind you, you could drive a tank through the errors and gaps in the French section of KM's 1701 -1800 1st edition! The 1st edition 1601-1700 was just as bad, and especially for values quoted. Still, they are better than a poke in the eye with a burnt stick as the saying goes. ;-)

I take it that the more recent editions must have removed reference to the 1790 date originally mentioned for Bayonne?

 

So what's the full list according to Gadoury of those struck at Paris, and which ones are the keys?

 

Too true it is! I don't have it though (another book loaned out and never returned) I just have the usual 1789 onwards which doesn't even mention the coin in question

Ciani is as useless as a one legged man in a butt kicking competition when it comes to detail of mints an mintages as is DeMay. I'm holding out to see if CGB fills the gap. There's a healthy competition going on between them and Gadoury.

 

No i wasn't being awkward there, i knew Ian had provided me with a list, but i was just wondering if any of the * dates or anything may have been recorded differently in the book you have.

Wow you actually know the mintage figures for these coins? The mintage figures for UK coins of this period are a totally mystery. Well one i've been trying to uncover but no success yet.