Some questions regarding Byzantine coins

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Herberto, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    When I look what the dealers sell of byzantine coins from the period of Anastasius until Heraclius, the overwhelming majority of these coins are minted in Constantinople. Then a significant minority is minted in Theupolis. Then some fewer are minted in Kyzikos and Nicomedia.

    Constantinople, Kyzikos and Nicomedia are located in what today is the north west Turkey, while Theoupolis is south close to Syria.

    My question is: were these coins minted in these four aforementioned cities also in circulation in places like Egypt, Crimea or Ravenna/Roma?


    Furthermore: We have a mint in Alexandria that was operational in years 525-645. That mint in Egypt produced some strange coins with denominations of 33, 12, 6 and 3 nummis. - Were these denominations also in circulation outside Egypt?
     
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Many of these mints will make more sense if you compare the dates of issue to what was going on in the Byzantine world. The areas actually under Byzantine control changed from time to time just like late Roman coins are often common from mints near where the Emperor was residing and in control rather than Rome which was not always all that securely part of the realm. I suspect that the 'strange' denominations stayed pretty close to their place of issue.
     
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  4. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    Oh, damn yes. – That makes sense.

    I have two coins of Constans which actually were minted in Syracuse and Carthage. –He also spent most of his time on the western part of Byzantine world.



    I am just wondering why I cannot find any 40 nummi minted in Ravenna/Rome in the stores?

    Egypt minted coins are very scarcity in the dealers stores.

    Did these coins minted in Constantinople, Theupolis, Kyzikos and Nicomedia overfloats in cities like Roma/Ravenna or Alexandria?
     
  5. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Constantinople was almost always the main mint except in very limited circumstances. Nikomedia, Antioch (Theupolis), and Kyzikos were the next "main mints". Alexandria, Cherson, Syracuse, Rome, Ravenna all minted at times, but being further from the center of the empire were very much more sporadic. Like Doug said, its all intertwined with the history of what was happening at the time.

    Those goofy Alexandria denominations were a North African phenomenon. The Visigoths in North Africa also had the weird denominations. I would guess it was to fit Byzantine coinage into a preexisting coinage system, but have never researched the issue very far. Cherson also had a couple of unusual denominations.
     
  6. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    So anyone who knows whether these 40-nummis minted in Constantinople, Kyzikos, Nicomedia and Theupolis also were in circulation in Alexandria or Italy?

    Did Constantinople-minted coins circulated in Rome/Ravenna/Alexandria?
     
  7. arnoldoe

    arnoldoe Well-Known Member


    Yeah, i think you can find a lot of byzantine coins that have two mint marks on them showing that they did circulate all over the place

    [​IMG]
    Constantinople and Antioch

    [​IMG]
    Constantinople and Syracuse



    [​IMG]
    Alexandria and Antioch
     
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  8. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    Apparently.

    ”Byzantine Coins” of Phillip Grierson on page 20 here:

    https://books.google.dk/books?id=_k...=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

    “CONOB is found on gold coins struck at other mints besides Constantinople, and there are sixth-century copper coins with CON which originated in North Africa…”

    He is saying that North Africa made coins with “CON” on it. He is saying that copper coins with CON not necessary mean that they are made in Constantinople. - That is new to me.

    Unfortunately the book is not fully on that page so I will try to ask my library whether they have his book.
     
  9. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Were there Byzantine coins struck in Carthage?
     
  10. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I have the book. Sorry I didn't mention it, but CONOB was indeed used for most gold coins, regardless of what mint produced them. It even appeared on imitative coins like one I have of the Ostrogoths copying a Byzantine coin of Justin. So yes, most gold does not name the mint on the coin, they all name Constantinople.

    Ost_Rev.jpg

    For bronzes, most stated the actual mint that minted them, or are later when the mint was not listed even for Constantinople.

    Regarding your question about circulation, I simply do not have the answer definitively. I have bought hoards that appear to be found in modern Syria or Turkey. Most of the coins were Antioch, but many of the older ones were Constantinople. So they circulated there. I also know many countermarked coins of the Heraclii revolt were overstruck on Sicily on Constaninople minted coins, (though most were Syracuse). Other than that I do not have any proof, but I would suspect Constantinople coins circulated widely throughout the empire. Remember there were constant shipments of troops and supplies between Constantinople and other cities, and I imagine coinage went with those ships.
     
  11. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Yes. Gold was labeled CONOB but Carthage, especially after the Heraclii revolt, was a main mint for a time. Gold coins can be identified by style and thickness, (small thick coins).
     
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  12. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    Thank you very much for the answer. I appreciate it.

    Maybe the Constantinople-minted coins were most widely spread around Balkan/Grece west to Constantinople, And Kyzikos/Nicomedia-minted coins were widely spread around Anatolia, while Theupolis-minted coins were widely in Levant, Mesopotamia and Egypt.

    In any case, thanks again. I will have your answer in mind next time when I try to build more knowledge.
     
  13. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    I think you will find the answer to be complex, with different answers at different periods, changing with political and economic circumstances. In general, the western provinces and their mints were isolated both physically and economically from Constantinople and the East. Several Dumbarton Oaks publications on Byzantine coins are available for free at doaks.org > Publications & Online Resources > Online Publications. Of particular relevance to this thread are Angeliki Laiou (ed.), 'The Economic History of Byzantium' and Philip Grierson, 'Byzantine Coinage'.
     
  14. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Just a warning. The Grierson publication listed here is not THE "Byzantine Coinage" book so useful to everyone.

    If anyone ever has a question on Dumbarton Oaks Byzantine publications, just ask. I own all of them, including 5 volumes of Byzantine coins and I believe 4 or 5 volumes on seals.

    Great Alchon piece btw @dltsrq. :)
     
  15. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    No. He said that for *gold* CONOB does not mean the mint is Constantinople. It apparently says "Con[stantinopoli] ob[ryziacus]: fine gold solidus of Constantinople" but now it is thought it might mean "of the gold standard of Constantinople" because other mints used it too. The "OB" part is critical. For copper, "CON" means it was minted in Constantinople, with the possible exception of some rare 5th century late Roman AE2s (Theodosius II, Valentinian III) found only near Cherson in the Crimea.
     
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  16. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    This is correct. It appears that for gold coins CONOB was either a declaration of Constantinople fineness, or more likely in my mind it was simply a frozen attribute. Just like mintmarks on Parthian coins became frozen regardless of mint, and became "part of what a coin looks like", I hypothesize on gold coins CONOB was recognized as "part of the design" and simply used at all mints because "that is what a solidus looks like". For illiterate populations, its a powerful force, what something is "supposed" to look like, especially for a high value coin that we know was forged a lot.

    For bronzes, they almost always used the real mint name.
     
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