Some questions for fellow slabbed coin buyers.

I personally buy both slabbed coins and metals, and I wanted to ask you guys some questions.

Do you believe that most slabbed MS60 coins are undergraded?

If you don't agree with the grade on a holder, even if it's PCGS or NGC with a CAC sticker, do you believe that the grade on the holder is worthless?

If you're buying graded Morgans, do you like to search for semi-prooflike coins? I know that a lot of them can be undervalued, especially at coin shops.

What do you think of each grading company, including ICG, CAC, NTC, and SEGS?

Would you buy an undergraded coin and take it out of the holder it's in to sell it at its proper grade?

And finally, have you seen a coin with a gold CAC sticker that you didn't agree with?

I've got a lot of mixed opinions about these questions, which is why I would love to hear about your opinion on the subject(s). Remember: your opinion is worth it!

 

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Most MS60 coins are dogs.

Technically Mint State, but no other redeeming value so they get a 60.

 

I think I have a MS 60 or two. I definitely know I have a MS61. Personally over the years I would rather have an AU58 more than a MS60. To me, others may disagree, the 58 will have a more dynamic appearance than the 60. There are always some exceptions, but that is how I feel about it. I think @John Milton has posted a thread or two about the questions/comments you have.

 

Do you believe that most slabbed MS60 coins are undergraded?
No; I think most are correct. MS 60 coins are technically uncirculated but with a lot of marks/hits (think Morgan that was always in bag but got really beat up from being constantly hit by the other coins).

If you don't agree with the grade on a holder, even if it's PCGS or NGC with a CAC sticker, do you believe that the grade on the holder is worthless?
The grade is rarely worthless. Even if you don't agree with the grade, most might think the grade is correct. And in the cases where most agree with you that the grade is off, the coin will still sell (potentially at a slight discount if over graded and likely at a decent premium if under graded).

If you're buying graded Morgans, do you like to search for semi-prooflike coins? I know that a lot of them can be undervalued, especially at coin shops.
Semi-prooflike coins can certainly be appealing, especially if the seller is not asking for a premium. In many cases that I have seen, the dealer will ask a premium or if it is an auction, bidders will bid it up above guide.

What do you think of each grading company, including ICG, CAC, NTC, and SEGS?
The rankings have usually been PCGS, NGC, Anacs, then ICG. Some will flip Anacs and ICG between 3rd and 4th. With CAC entering the grading market, they are generally considered to be at least second behind PCGS (and some even have them first). SEGS can be ok but they are further down the rankings because they are less consistent. NTC is much lower in the rankings; most coins in those slabs are overgraded or have problems. Regardless of rankings, you can find correctly graded coins in all slabs.

Would you buy an undergraded coin and take it out of the holder it's in to sell it at its proper grade?
If the undergraded coin isn't already priced at the higher grade level, then I would pick it up. Taking it out of the holder to regrade would depend on what the upside is. It costs $20-$30 to slab a coin on average (cost per coin goes down when you send more in at the same time based on the fixed fees). If the higher grade does not net you at least $30, there is no point. In my opinion, you need at least a $100 upside to make it worth the effort to regrade. Also, a gold CAC sticker is often worth more than the next grade (plenty of demand for them and people pay up for the stickered coins). So cracking and resubmitting is not always the best option.

And finally, have you seen a coin with a gold CAC sticker that you didn't agree with?
I have seen a few gold CAC coins that did not seem special. Technically they might have been undergraded but they did not look 1.5 points too low nor did they have great eye appeal.

 

For 60 + years I buy the coin...always have always will... no matter if its raw, or graded...no matter who has graded it.....or stickered it....or grade on it.

If there were a 10 commandments of coin collecting #1 be trust your eye and what you know....and like.....as...
Lastly it's" your collection" you only need to please ones self....true "likes "are nice...
Even better if" liked" more so by you... than by ones peer's.

 

I'd add 2 things to Denis' comments above.

SEGS - you need to differentiate between the earlier SEGS Inc and the later SEGS LLC. The INC closed up on Friday and the LLC opened on Monday and then a couple weeks later they announced they would no longer guarantee the grades of the former company...

NTC is a basement slabber.

 

I agree. Most have lived their life in a bank bag, like a Morgan dollar, and just barely escape being problem coins. I've seen some AU58 coins that look better than a 63, which is one reason why some can be undervalued.

I personally have a couple of things to say about an AU58. They can definitely be undervalued, and I guarantee you that this is a common grade over at CAC from people who are shooting for the elusive MS.

I don't think I've seen an AU58 that will sell for more than a MS60, but some, in my opinion, can be capable of selling for more than a 62.

Holy cow, man - this is what the forums like this need! I really do appreciate how you gave a thorough explanation of each question. I believe with undergraded coins, this may be why a lot of PCGS "OGH" coins sell for more than their newer counterparts.

I am wondering something, though: do you own a CAC-graded coin? I've never seen one in person, and it would be cool to see the grading up close. If you own one, I would definitely love to hear your opinions on the grading.

There's never been a truer statement. One example is people likely ending up with coins they don't care for when they are trying to build a PCGS or NGC registry set. What you said, though, about that you only need to please oneself, should be one of the 10 coin collecting commandments in itself.

Overall, if you prefer the look of an AU58 over a MS60, I say to get the AU58. After all, at the end of the day, we coin collectors are truly not competing against anyone.

 

I owned one CAC graded coin. It was an Isabella Quarter graded G4. I thought the grading was correct. There was nothing special about the coin though. I bought it because I wanted to see a CAC slab in hand without overpaying for the slab. After satisfying my curiosity of seeing the slab, I sold the coin for my cost. It took a bit of time to sell (my guess is because the lowball market hasn't materialized yet for CAC slabs and there could be one that later grades lower; plus, just like I thought, many others must have thought there was not much special about the coin).

I continue to look at CAC slabs but have not yet run across another that meets my criteria of enough eye appeal at a price that I like (I have seen plenty with good eye appeal-the price was just more than I felt was worth spending).

 

ICG, CAC and ANACS are a good choice for some coins.
There are some nice coins in NTC and SEGS holders. Learning to spot them is the tough part.

 

if the coin gets my eye, it's bought no matter the grade, as for grading companies I like NGC and PCGS, but that is my personal like

 

If only to resell? I would say that if the slab is causing problems then yes crack it. I have passed on coins in slabs only to find it in a flip later down the road. You are not the only that has thought it might sell better with out a label.

 

It is fairly rare for a straight graded coin to sell better raw compared to a slab. Problem coins (especially those that are borderline) can benefit from being sold raw (of course there is the ethical question, particularly when the seller does not disclose there is a problem). Maybe certain Morgans would sell more as raw Uncs vs in MS 60 slabs but I don't think the spread would be significant.

 

FWIW, all my coins are metal. I don’t never buy no other kinds.

 

I was more speaking of basement slabs, not problem coins. As we well know basement slabs sell for a fraction of the price of a top TPG. When there is a nice coin in a basement slab it may just sit there for years sometimes because the dealer wants a proper price for a descent graded coin. Now raw it may garner than better price

 

Are you constructing the series of questions based on Market Grading or Technical Grading?

If the basis is Technical Grading, what criteria is the source?

Would you concur that Technical Grading and Market Grading may produce different replies to the questions from respondents, based on their preferred choice of either Grading opinion?

What period of time are you suggesting would be indicative of the application by respondents to differentiate any application of Market Grading or Technical Grading?

Is it your opinion that there is a difference between Market Grading and Technical Grading. or to you apply an opinion that does not consider a difference?

A slight suggestion: the observations concerning CAC "Grading" requires clarification, because CAC is a 4PG and does not encapsulate a piece. CACG is a TPG and does encapsulate their opinion of a piece. There was a period when CACG did encapsulate a Legacy piece (a piece that had previously received a CAC A or B Sticker applied to the NGC or PCGS encapsulated piece) for CAC members, but the time period for Submittal of this offer has passed. It was differentiated by the letter L designation on the CACG Holder.

Other than that, I got nuttin'.

 

Recently I have been working on raw coin sets for the short set of Walking Liberty Half Dollars in Mint State and Indian Cents in EF to AU. I have found several coins, and hope to find more in the budget section at Summer FUN.

I imagine that I will have to buy certified coins for the "heart of the Indian Cent set" which runs from 1866 to 1878.

The higher prices for certification have cut down on the number of cheap coins that get into slabs. I can't buy certified new modern coins, like the Washington Crossing the Delaware quarter, for my registry sets any more, for example. I used to be able to buy such coins in PR-69 for $10 to $20. Those days seem to be gone.

 

First you must consider the TPG grading company. Only 4 TPG’s should be trusted. Most newer graded coins are the actual grade but there is a small portion of the older graded coins that would grade higher today. The grading standards have changed.

 

I agree in that case. The basement slabs can be worse than raw since people rarely trust those (and might even be more likely to think it is a problem coin or grossly overgraded).

 

There are still PR 69 moderns that can be had for the cost of grading or below since the dealers tend to make their money on the 70s and then dump the rest for a quicker sale. For those moderns where 70s aren't as common, the 69s will be higher priced. And some dealers might be setting a 70 minimum on their bulk orders so the 69s aren't as prevalent (thus they would also be more expensive-especially if the sellers aren't the dealers trying to get rid of the "extra" inventory).

 

It seems like dealer don’t offer the “Crossing the Delaware” piece except as some varieties. I have zero interest in those, especially at high prices.