Some old Coin Chemicals never die

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by desertgem, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Put simply, it chemically tones the coins darker.

    There's a half dozen, maybe more, products like this that sold under various names. Deller's Darkener is one, and there are quite a few with Nic A something or another in the name. And these are not to be confused with Nic A Date which is an acid based product that helps reveal the dates on coins where the date has been worn away.

    All of the darkener products are typically used to mislead people. They can be used to help hide or even cover up hairlines, contact marks, light scratches, harsh cleaning, things like that. Or they can be used to make coins that have been over-dipped look like they have not been over-dipped. Or, to make even coins that have been properly dipped to be more acceptable looking to people who prefer their coins toned somewhat.

    Recognizing coins that have been treated with these darkening chemicals can often be difficult, sometimes they can even fool the TPGs and hide things that would otherwise result in the coin being put in a problem slab. The effectiveness of these chemicals is determined by the skill level of the person using them.

    If the person has little skill, those with the necessary experience can see it right away. If you don't have the experience you probably won't notice it at all, even when the user was a novice.

    It's just another one of those things that knowledgeable people have to know.
     
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I think it needs to be pointed out that some of the commercially sold products are very good products ! Products that have legitimate purposes and are not always used to deceive anybody. Yeah, they may be used to deceive, but they aren't always.

    Like MS70, that was or used to be anyway a very valuable product, a helpful product, because as I said it could quite effectively remove haze - a problem that plagues many coins - and do so without harming the coin in any way. Coin dips are another very useful product, one that is probably responsible for saving more coins from certain destruction than any other product. Pretty much everybody who owns coins owns some, and probably many, that have been dipped - even if you aren't aware they have been dipped.

    Distilled water, acetone, xylene, MS70, coin dips - all of these are very helpful products when they are used correctly.
     
  4. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    This squares EXACTLY with every bunch of club mates’ stories from guys who use these chemicals.
     
  5. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    In answer to one post previously, here is the solution in a container and also a photo of the label, It leaves me a little confused as much older postings in this and the NGC forum indicated the older solution was this color and the new was clear/ colorless, but the label has the word 'NEW" at the very bottom, but I am not sure if the contents were new or the conformation with labeling chemicals was new. Jim

    ms-70 color.JPG

    ms-70ingtred.JPG
     
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  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I'm not sure if it's the new or old myself, which is why I asked. But based on the color that bottle would be the old formula - according to the link I posted above anyway.

    Also in that link the old formula is described as being kind of thick, viscous, like dish soap while the new is the consistency of Windex, very thin. In other reports I have read the old formula is described as being thick like olive oil and the new like water. So there is some similarity in those reports.

    I have also read that if put on a scale of 1-10 the old worked at a 9, and the new a 6. So if ya have any modern Proofs that are hazy, give it try and see how it does.

    Personally, back when I used it I was experimenting with so many things that I cannot recall with any degree of certainty what color it was, or its consistency. The only thing I can remember with certainty is how well it worked.
     
  7. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    "New" and "old" being constantly relative terms.
     
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Well, in this case the oldest reports that I've been able to find of the formula of MS70 being changed date from 2017. I've not run across any reports earlier than that. But there may well be some.
     
  9. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    The pH of the solution is between 13 and 13.25 in the bottle. The color , consistency , and pH seems to indicate it is the old formula.
    Jim
     
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