Some observations from the coin show

Can anyone seriously actually cite another example where raising the price during a negotiation because someone was insulted is considered reasonable and acceptable behavior from a legitimate vender or salesman in America? Maybe one that won't lock the thread down please?

 

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Letting someone know something, only requires a verbal explanation. What @Conder101 suggests is a punishment excercised on the potential client and represents ill will or revenge for taking part in the transaction bargaining process. It means the seller/dealer does not care if he sells, he is willing to walk a frugal customer. The loss here, with that kind of approach, usually ends up being greater for the seller/dealer.

An explanation or letting the customer know where both parties stand, plus a take it or leave it option on the BEST PRICE, usually ends in more sales than a malicious bark back with an increased price.

@GDJMSP, haven't you just finished lecturing us somewhere, about catching more flies with honey than vinegar? Now it sound like you're trying to justify the opposite.

Prices on slabs at coin shows

 

All I see, is an example of a dealer who briefly lost his composure and displayed a lack of professionalism. Who's the professional in that transaction? I thought that is why some insist we need the dealers, their professionalism.

 

Nobody is saying the customer is always right. I haven't seen a post that says that, can you please point it out?

A counter offer is given a million times a day to a seller OR A BUYER who says: ' this is my best price, this is as low as I can go, etc'. It is done in negotiations over a $100 coin, it is done in foreign countries where people barter with beads and chickens, and cows, it is done at Saturday garage sales, and swap meets, it is done when someone phones on a car ad, it is done in car showrooms, it is done when a company buys out another billion dollar company on the NYSE, it is done when unions bargain with employers, it is done when heads of countries issue an ultimatum to another country, it is done everyday among the 7 billion people here on earth every single day, and no one is insulted. Except you and some coin dealers, oh and a few people here who think if a dealer says it, it must be right. Which is downright laughable.

Raising the price is done in a humorous way by TV pawn shop dealers (Rick and Les even laugh when they do it) and I guess some coin dealers. Now raising the price is an insult, and speaks volumes about why some people don't get respect.

Sorry, but the words "this is my best price" are not sacrosanct.

 

Thank you, Doug. Been there, done that. That's why I also agreed with Conder.

 

And what I'm saying is it is highly unprofessional and totally inappropriate to respond that way. My point in asking my question is that is that it is so absurd that I can't even think of another situation in America where the salesman gets to raise their price when the customer offends them. Please explain why a coin dealer is so much more special then any other occupation in America that they can behave this way when no other person selling anything does this. A car salesman would be fired instantly if their boss saw them initionally blow a sale because they were offended by their customer. Can you even imagine how this would go down at Walmart if the guy in the tv section raised the price for a customer because they were offended?

If a realtor or car salesman did this you would never defend this behavior. It is so ridicules that the only valid other example was deleted.

Maybe it used to be ok. Maybe that is why the older crowd is ok with this behavior. Years ago a surgeon could throw objects at nurses in the or and no one thought twice. Today this behavior gets the surgeon thrown out of the hospital. Many years ago it used to be ok to marry a 12 year old girl. Let me know how it turns out for you in America to try to do this today.

Rules and codes of conduct change. Maybe it really used to be ok to act like this but not today. And while maybe now I say it people will defend it but I can't help but point out no one buying coins today on this board has been anything but critical and nonaccepting of this behavior. Only dealers and doug (who is not buying coins right now) have said this is acceptable behavior.

I would recommend people listen to their customers because no customers on this board have said they would be ok with a dealer treating them this way.

Most of all it is telling that the only example of a salesman treating customers like this in America is salesman selling products so damaging and unacceptable that they are illegal.

Just for the record over 70% of the dealers I sold coins to at vegas shows routinely acted this way and "violated" my sacred best price. I guess this must be a one way rule.

Do you the coin dealer really want to or think it is ok to act like a salesman of illegal medications?

 

If you can't honestly give me a valid example of this behavior being acceptable in any other line of sales you should ponder the signifance of this doug.

 

The problem is that not all dealers will actually give out their best price when asked. Some will, sure, but it's unreasonable for a dealer to expect a new customer to know if they're the type who gives out a real best price or not. Punishing a potential customer for attempting to find out only alienates them.

The best way for a dealer to keep a customer from attempting to haggle is to have a reasonable best price. When I ask for a best price and I am quoted what I think is a fair price I will just pay it. If the best price for a coin is above what a customer might expect but there is a good reason (rare variety, between grades, etc.) simply explain that to the customer up front when you give the best price.

There are tactful ways to counter a best price. Don't try to nickel and dime. Don't insult the price or the coin. What I typically do is say "I would be a buyer at x" and I give them what I feel is a fair offer. They can accept it or not. That is my best price. Sometimes I will come back and do this towards the end of the show if the coin is still there.

 

Is your point that if a coin dealer, or anyone else selling something says "that's my best price", you either pay that amount or walk away?

And if you reply back with your best offer, you are being disrespectful?

 

Ok first. You have absolutely failed to give me an example which would explain the rant with a hint of personal comments. Again the fact that you can't name a single job or sales position where this is acceptable. Why is a coin dealer more special then a car dealer or Walmart salesman selling tv's. News flash they are not and both would be fired on the spot for intentionally blowing a sale because they took offense.

Here is where we don't seem to be communicating. It is not ok to try to be rude or disrespectful to anyone. Please stop changing my argument to something easier for you to refute. Instead listen closely to what I'm going to say now. This is coming from someone who not only is a professional but teaches others how to do the same.

It is not ok to be rude to others. But what does that mean? Something rude to me is not to others. Rude is a very subjective concept that each individual interpretes differently. Which means on a statistical level you the professional are going to be confronted by what you think is rude behavior and likely on a daily basis when you deal with the public. So the true professional knows and even expects to encounter rude behavior, as interpreted by their internal code of conduct.

The true professional doesn't allow others behavior to influence their demeaner nor the conduct of their business. The true professional doesn't take it personal and leaves work at work. They don't internalize this rude behavior and allow their own behavior to drop to another's level. They take the high road. They maintain their composure.
The professional understands that the person might not even think they are being rude because their subjective idea of rude is different.

A true coin professional deal understands this. They look past insults and rude behavior and they close the deal. They make the sale, go home with money in their pocket kiss the wife, play with the kids and pet the family cat. @Mainebill
The guy who takes offense and intentionally blows the deal to "get back" at the rude customer is just some shmuck selling coins and is absolutely not a professional coin dealer.

Finally. Everyone slips and makes mistakes. It is honestly understandable when a professional accidentally treats someone pooiy or even breaks from the professional behavior expected and stoops to the rude guys level. It happens. But when your code of conduct is to intentionally act this way as policy, well that would be the shmuck selling coins, not the professional coin dealer.

 

And in my estimation, and of many people who have responded here, this showed no common courtesy on the part of the dealer at all. The only exception would be something like the dealer says his best price is $100 which he potential buyer responds to with a $10 offer. If the dealer best price is $100 and the buyer offers $90, I don't see the insult that has to be responded to in such an uncourteous manner.

 

You don't see the insult because your defination if rude is different that every other human on this planet. Everyone has their own personal defination of rude. See this is exactly my point. Customer Kentucky is not trying to be rude. He just has a different idea of what rude is. But the money in his pocket is the exact shade of green as everyone else's.

I'd take the insult and make the sale. Because I'm a professional. You don't need to tolerate racial slur level of behavior but here you the professional should not even notice the counteroffer as rude. It is expected. But I have many years of formal training. Maybe if all coin dealers were made to attend cointalk university for their 2-8 year degree we would not be having this discussion.

By the way doug, I think it is clear you probably never were held to the standards of professional behavior. So please stop saying that my argument is that I can be as rude as I want and you just have to take it. My argument is regardless of how rude you personally think someone else is acting you maintain professional conduct and do not intentionally get into a pissing match with your former and now never again customer. But feel free to argue this point with me and tell me another area of sales where pissing matches are encouraged and people don't get fired by acting this way. I'm listening.

 

Holy Carp, if you're turning on @GDJMSP and we're still discussing his relentless defense of dealer behavior into the absurd and beyond, he might be in trouble.

 

I think it is clear you probably never were held to the standards of professional behavior.

I suspect very few knows of Doug's numismatic career beyond what he has mentioned on the forum. Most professionals who are secure in their personal stature do not feel comfortable in discussions, to mention it to secure an arguing point. So I would do a lot of research before making a possibly embarassing assumption.

 

Making a statement that it ok to get into a pissing match with your now ex and never to be again customer. Saying it is ok to as a policy to insult customers. Saying a professional is able to, allowed to or should ever even do this as policy is contradictory to every code of conduct of every career in which those in the career are held to professional standards. I don't honestly care what doug has done although I could find out pretty quickly. doug has left a big enough foot print on the Internet that he would have trouble keeping secrets.

The bottom line which is completely unchanging is that you cannot both act how doug says is ok as a policy and comply with professional conduct standards. Honestly I can't even believe I'm getting into an arguement with people about this behavior being considered ok and professional. I've made my point and hold to each and every word I written. If you honestly think you can be called professional and intentionally insult customers at the same time either you have no idea of what being a professional means or you never were one. Period. I'm done arguing with the childish notion that insulting people on purpose as a policy can be considered professional. Either you are one and understand this
Or you don't.

I never said what doug did. But this mistaken belief that going out of your way to intentionally insult customers is beyond a joke. This is not business 101 it is business 001. Even children selling lemon aid don't behave this way. It is simply not possibly to believe this behavior is professional and actually be held to professional standards. By the way I never said what he did I said his behavior was never held to professional standards. He could sell million dollar coins all day long it is simply not professional behavior to insult people on purpose.


The only embarrassing thing about this thread is me actually taking to time to respond to this garbage.

 

I guess I must be in violation of the rules. Here's what happened at the most recent coin show I attended, where I was very interested in a german coin:

Dealer: "The price on that coin is $450"
Me: "What would your best price be?"
Dealer: "I could give it to you for $400, but that's the lowest I can go."
Me: "So if I offered you $350 cash, you would say no?"
pause...
Dealer: "I can do $375, but that's it."
Me: "Sold!"

Should I not have asked, even though the dealer said it was his best price? I think not - and if he thought I was rude or pushy, he should have had the conviction to stick to his $400 price. But he clearly wanted the sale and came down again. I dont consider this to be insulting behavior, just finding the optimal price for buyer and seller.

 

It's even contradictory to CT rules:

1. Treat others, as you'd like to be treated. Would you like the price to go up because you tried to bargain?

2. Keep it clean. Do you think raising the price after a counter offer is clean?

3. If you don't like the offer, don't take it out on the person/customer.

4.Edited