Some observations from the coin show

My limited understanding of commodities is that futures trade similar to call options where the value is directly tied to current price i.e. if silver goes down the futures value goes down as well.

 

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I thought he meant short selling.

I didn't know you coud even do this with gold but with ETF's I guess it makes sense.

Is there even enough gold to back up these ETF's?

A friend of mine was convinced there wasn't but I don't know if I buy it.

 

If CT is going to have a featured thread about how customers should or shouldn't behave at coin shows, this one should also be featured.

 

They lost the money the second the market went down. The mentality they won't "lose" money until they sell is an erroneous one, but common nonetheless. If they were concerned with the risk, they should have hedged.

I agree with everything in yoru post Bkozak. I also agree the exact same post could have been written in 1983. Our industry has not changed much.

 

Well, don't buy coins you know nothing about, especially if you don't know their market value. But here's a trick...

Wait to shop until about two hours before the show closes, and pick a dealer that looks frustrated. Pick out some coins you want, then ask the dealer what sort of discount you can get for buying the lot. They all come down a little. Then pull out your wallet and count your money, look disappointed and start putting a few of the coins back. You might be pleasantly surprised. (Actually, I've only tried that once, but I managed to get a set of coins marked at $190 for $100.)

 

That's funny. I found a dealer I could tell was frustrated that stuff wasn't selling, I went back to him later in the day and he just started discounting like crazy. I could tell he was eager to sell some stuff, so I just waited him out a bit.

 

You can certainly do this. But the fact that this seems like one of the only ways anyone has posted about getting that good deal goes a long way in describing the accuracy of the many posters who feel show and lcs dealers are usually trying to get too much for their coins. For me, I'm not going to go to a show and just wait until two hours before it ends. Especially when most shows I have gone to half of the dealers don't do the last day at all and the ones who do are gone six hours before the official end of the show.

I'm much happier going to the show. Talking to the dealers who also do toned coins and having a good time. Then as I have posted before specifically finding something I want and have been looking for (the Norse in pcgs 63) and buying it right in front of the dealers table on my cell phone for $100 less then he wanted even using my eBay bucks to do it. And not even having the dealer know what I did and walking away smug.

 

I literally had a dealer at a show tell me I "needed to pay my dues before I can get fair prices"... Whatever the heck that meant...

I also had a dealer tell me $350 was only 10% over his cost on a coin when greysheet was $70. It was not toned, low grade, common date for the type.

Also, I am young (and look younger). I had asked a dealer for a price on a coin. He emphasized three times the coin was "ONE-THOUSAND, EIGHT HUNDRED!" Not "one-hundred & eighty, BUT ONE-THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED!!!" I rolled my eyes and did not show him the handful of $20 Libs I was carrying... Btw, the REDBOOK of this coin was $1200... Some people are out of their mind.

I agree with the consensus here that a lot of the mid-level shows are looking for suckers.

 

Also, in addition to dealers denying their coins are problem coins, they will be quick to say your coin has problems (even if it was just cracked out, problem-free from a TPG).

 

Strange...I feel sad for #8 The guy selling numismatic books had nobody at his table

I could picture it in my mind, him sitting there alone looking at all the people passing him by.

 

I think so, like I said 80% of the coins there were raw and self graded MS65 or better. Then you look at their slabbed coins and they are all ms63, ms64.
I had one guy try to hard sell me on a Columbus Half. He told me he thinks its a proof, but he will give me a "good deal" I asked why he hasnt sent it in to be certified, and he said he hasnt had time.

 

The regional shows I attended had the same traffic at the book table. I did stop by and look at some of the books, but I also felt a little bad for them.

 

I love it since proofs start in the thousands. I would love to pay multiples of what a coin is worth in order to find out it is not a proof. Oh wait, since I only buy pcgs and ngc that won't happen to me. Shucks.

 

Because that sounds reasonable. He had time to travel across the state(s) to attend this show in addition to the planning required to make said show but could not put the coin in the mail to increase its value exponentially?

If these people really cared about coins as much as the real collectors do they would not do what they do. They do so much damage beyond measure to the hobby and industry alike. That's why in a way I agree with Michigan's new laws - or at least their intent.

 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/did-ngc-slab-another-fake-coin.252264/

 

I have never once bought a slabbed coin at a show. Their prices are way too high to start with. I saw a toned PCGS 1943 S Jeff I liked and his price was sky high. I passed. A week later i saw him sell it on ebay and it went for half the price. Plus, what I am looking for no one carries. I usually go with one or two coins i specifically want and no one has them. I make list of coins I like as I go around to each table, and then after I have made my rounds, decide what to go back for. I have such a limited budget that I can't wheel and deal with big coins. I usually look through the raw Jeffs for some good ones. Many times I leave with more money than I came with after I sell off my scrap silver.

 

Nobody has the coins I need for my collection. I know they exist, they just dont ever surface.

 

I believe that ngc would acknowledge a fake coin in ther holder and compensate for it.

 

Yep, or if you bought it on Ebay or an auction house you could return it. If you buy it at a coin show, you are probably SOL.

 

Just another reason I buy how I do