Some Nice Toned Mexican 8 Reales

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by giorgio11, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. giorgio11

    giorgio11 Senior Numismatist

    [​IMG]

    An 1877-Go FR (Guanajuato) 8 Reales, MS63 PCGS, with incredible color! Population 5/6 ... and this one is the largest of the three CoinFacts plate coins. The "FR" is for assayer Faustino Ramirez, who served from 1870–1878.

    [​IMG]

    And an 1882-Ga (Guadalajara) FS 8 Reales, AU55, with great surfaces, Pop 1/2 at PCGS. Although there is an 1882/1 overdate known, this is the normal date. Authors Mike Dunigan and J.B. Parker comment in Resplandores: The Cap and Rays 8 Reales of The Republic of Mexico 1823-1897 (Superior Stamp & Coin, 1997) that "this date is available in all grades and is exceptionally beautiful in Uncirculated condition." The FS is for assayer Ferando Sayago, who served from 1880–1882. The two finer at PCGS are one AU58 and one MS64.

    Enjoy!

    Kind regards,

    George
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. asheland

    asheland The Silver Lion

    Awesome!
     
    giorgio11 likes this.
  4. giorgio11

    giorgio11 Senior Numismatist

    8R Mexico 1883-Ca MM MS63 34359864 Trueview.jpg

    An 1883-Ca (Chihuahua) MM Mexico Cap and Rays 8 Reales, MS63 PCGS. The Chihuahua mint issued 8 Reales annually until it closed in 1895. The MM is for assayer Manuel Merino, who served from 1868–1876 and again from 1882–1895. This coin is the sole MS63 in this grade but there are eight finer at PCGS: four each in MS64 and MS65 (in general, MS66 coins in this long-running series are great condition rarities, regardless of date, mint or assayer).

    I am really enjoying learning more about this series with the help of Resplandores and some fellow collectors/dealers.

    Kind regards,

    George
     
  5. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    Those are beauties.
     
    asheland and giorgio11 like this.
  6. giorgio11

    giorgio11 Senior Numismatist

    Thank you kindly @mark_h and @asheland! More to come ...

    Kind regards,

    George
     
    asheland likes this.
  7. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Wow. Obverse is exciting. Lots of detail. Wow again
     
    giorgio11 likes this.
  8. SilverMike

    SilverMike Well-Known Member

    Very nice! I haven't explored world silver too much yet but it may be on my horizon.
     
  9. giorgio11

    giorgio11 Senior Numismatist

    @SilverMike world crowns are tons of fun, and many of them can be had in well-circulated condition (and sometimes close to Uncirculated) for little more than melt. A lot of them are five shillings, five kronor, five whatever ... Here's a guy who has a lot!

    http://worldcrowns.blogspot.com/

    Kind regards,

    George
     
    SilverMike likes this.
  10. giorgio11

    giorgio11 Senior Numismatist

    8R 1892-Do JP MS61 34359869 Trueview.jpg

    This 1892-Do JP 8 Reales was struck at the Durango mint under assayer Jose Miguel Palma (who served two terms, 1880–1882 and 1890–1892; there was also a J. Miguel Palma who served one year, 1877, and used the three-letter acronym JMP). Another assayer, Norberto Dominguez, "signed" the Durango dies ND starting in this year through 1895, and such coins are slightly rarer, according to the reference. This piece seems rather severely undergraded by PCGS, at MS61, but even so, it is the sole Mint State example of this date, mint and assayer at PCGS (#700584); there are also one each in AU55 and AU58.

    The Spanish word "resplandor" translates as "radiance," and in fact, Stephen King's The Shining with Spanish subtitles is El Resplandor. "Splendor," however, is the closest cognate in English that I can think of for "resplandor." Where did Mike Dunigan and J.B. Parker get the title for Resplandores: The Cap and Rays 8 Reales of the Republic of Mexico 1823–1897? I don't know. Was "Resplandores" (which could also be interpreted, more or less, as "shiners" or "radiant objects") the preexisting name for this type in Spanish? [​IMG]

    Fortunately, I can read, write and speak Spanish quite well if not quite fluently, so I will be able to learn more about these Mexican coins and their Spanish colonial forebears as time goes on (some of the major references such as Hookneck/El Aguila de Perfil are bilingual, and some are Spanish-only). I hope you are enjoying my little essays and these wonderful coins.

    Kind regards,

    George
     
    Jaelus, Chiefbullsit and Johndoe2000$ like this.
  11. xlrcable

    xlrcable Active Member

    George, what are your favorite Spanish-language books on the subject? I collect mainly Mexican coins and I read Spanish well, but your post made me realize my collection of books about coins is 100% English...
     
  12. giorgio11

    giorgio11 Senior Numismatist

    8R 1893-Ga JS MS64 Pop 4-1 34359872 Trueview.jpg

    An 1893-Ga (Guadalajara) JS 8 Reales, MS64 PCGS, Pop 4 in this grade with one finer, an MS65. The JS stands for assayer Jose Schiafino, whose tenure ran from 1885–1895. The Guadalajara mint was opened in 1812 under Spanish colonial rule, striking silver 1/2, 1, 2, 4, and 8 Reales coins through 1815. It reopened in 1818 and continued operating through 1822. It was the only Royalist mint, according to some online sources I consulted, that also struck gold 4 and 8 Escudos. Under the Mexican Republic, it struck Cap and Rays 8 Reales coins first in 1825 and continued with only minor interruptions until closing on June 30, 1895.

    Kind regards,

    George
     
    Jaelus, Chiefbullsit and longshot like this.
  13. giorgio11

    giorgio11 Senior Numismatist

    This is, frankly, a new area for me, although one I am getting intensely interested in. I found a post (2012) on another forum from a collector with far more experience than I in Spanish/Mexican numismatics, and with deference and thanks to TwoKopeiki, I hope he won't mind that I cut and pasted his entire note into my study materials. So far, I have only ordered three books: Resplandores: The Cap and Rays 8 Reales of The Republic of Mexico 1823–1897, by Mike Dunigan and J.B. Parker, is English-only. Hookneck/El Aguila de Perfil by Clyde Hubbard and David O'Harrow, is bilingual Spanish-English. The latest Guide Book of Mexican Coins that I could find (Krause Publications), the sixth edition (1992), is English-only.

    Here's what TwoKopeiki had to say a few years back, on the subject of Spanish 8 Reales:
    =================================================
    "There are a few references available in English. The best I have found so far on 8 Reales that covers all Mints and rulers is the 1969 work in two volumes by Calbeto de Grau titled "Compendium de las Piezas de Ocho Reales." It's in both English and Spanish and provides background information as well as relative scarcity of individual year / mint / assayer / variety combination. I have found it the most useful general 8 Reales reference. It's also one of the more expensive ones. Right now AbeBooks lists a few sets with prices ranging $220 - $500.

    If you read spanish, "El Duro" also contains quite a bit of information on the series.

    "Numismatic History of Mexico" talks about coin production at Mexico City and other Mexico Provisional mints. It's also a pretty cheap book, in my opinion, for the amount of information (albeit dated when it comes to pricing) contained within.

    In fact, when it comes to pricing - there isn't a good reference out right now that would be considered reliable. Krause is the closest one in published form. Auction archives from US and Spain is a good way to monitor price trends.

    Here's a short list taken from a previous post:
    Gilboy's "Columnarios" for the Pillar type Spanish American coins
    Calbeto's "Compendium VIII Reales" Two volumes covers all mints
    Hubbard and O'Harrow's "Hooknecks" - covers all die varieties of the Hookneck (Profile Eagle) Mexican 1823-1825.
    Dunigan and Parker's "Resplandores" covers every major variety of Cap and Ray 8R from Mexico 1400 varieties 1823-1897
    "Numismatica Espanol", 1998, by Calico & Trigo - useful, but in Spanish only
    Cayon's "Las Monedas Espanolas" - covers all denominations, not only 8R - Spanish only
    Buttrey and Hubbard's "a guide book of Mexican Coin 1822 to date." - includes minors, not only 8R
    Hubbard's "Numismatic History of Mexico" - lots of info on individual mints including some war of independence information."
    =================================================

    And again, thanks to knowledgeable collectors who help us neophytes get up to speed. Obviously, the information above is six years old, so there may be more current information available of which I am unaware.

    The Resplandores book by Dunigan and Parker is wonderful, a gorgeous book divided (logically) by the 14 mints that struck Cap and Rays 8 Reales. It is the reference for the series, and PCGS uses its attributions (Go54 is 1874-Go FR, the 54th date/assayer combo listed from Guanajuato) in its Registry Sets. It is somewhat dated but still essential, listing tons of varieties (overdates/overassayers' initials) and providing brief histories of each mint.

    Hookneck/El Aguila de Perfil is more specalized, treating the first-style [Hookneck] Republic 8 Reales of 1823–1825 struck variously at Mexico City, Durango, and Guanajuato. It includes patterns, theories about the design and its creators, sales records, counterstamps, overstrikes, medals, and counterfeits.

    I can tell already that I am going to have buy a copy of the Compendio Ocho Reales even though it's expensive ... I hope all this helps.

    Kind regards,

    George
     
  14. xlrcable

    xlrcable Active Member

    Thanks for taking the trouble to post this!
     
    giorgio11 likes this.
  15. giorgio11

    giorgio11 Senior Numismatist

    ^ @xircable Glad to help!

    Kind regards,

    George
     
  16. giorgio11

    giorgio11 Senior Numismatist

    8R 1879-Oa AE AU58 Pop 1-0 Mintage 153,000 34359859 Trueview.jpg

    8R 1891-Oa EN AU58 Pop 1-0 Mintage 160,000 34359865 Trueview.jpg

    Two 8 Reales struck at the Oaxaca mint, an 1879-Oa AE signifying assayer Agustin Edner, and an 1891-Oa EN struck under assayer Eduardo Navarro Luna. Both coins are AU58 PCGS, and both are Pop 1/0 at that service.

    Unlike prolific mints like Zacatecas and Mexico City, the Oaxaca mint started producing 8 Reales much later, in 1858, and only ran through 1893. Mintages were generally low, when their numbers are known at all, and Uncirculated examples from this mint tend to be scarce or rare. The 1879 issue here was struck to the extent of 153,000 coins, and the 1891 160,000 pieces. Further heightening the interest surrounding Oaxaca issues are the curious 1861-64 issues, which show two completely different die styles for the same years (one crude, one much finer) and different-style mintmarks. One had an O mintmark, the other had a small 'A' inside the O. Resplandores authors Dunigan and Parker have concluded that two different mints, using the same assayer, were responsible for striking these interesting productions.

    The later days of Christmas will be getting better and better ... Thanks for reading.

    Kind regards,

    George
     
  17. giorgio11

    giorgio11 Senior Numismatist

    8R 1839-Go PJ AU55 Pop 1-3 34240619 Trueview.jpg

    8R 1896-Go RS MS63 Pop 4-1 34359867.jpg

    An early- and a late-date 8 Reales from Guanajuato. The 1839 Go PJ is (under)graded AU55 but has great color, Pop 1 with 3 finer, 1 in AU58 and 2 in MS63. A common date, given the numerous listings available for the issue. There are an overdate 1839/8 and an over assayer P over J varieties known, but this is neither. The PJ is for an unknown assayer who served from 1834–1842. Note the early-style mintmark, with small O inside the G, in contrast to the later coin. Guanajuato made Hookneck-style 8 Reales in 1824 and 1825. Dunigan and Parker write that "in 1830 Guanajuato became the first mint in Mexico to produce its 8 Reales from hubs," greatly improving the quality of the coinage.

    The 1896-Go RS is an MS63, Pop 4 in this grade with 1 finer, an MS65. Rosendo Sandoval was the assayer, serving through 1900 which would have included the transition from the Cap and Rays 8 Reales to the Cap and Rays (Liberty Cap) 1 Peso coins, which debuted in 1898.

    Kind regards,

    George
     
    Jaelus, Chiefbullsit and longshot like this.
  18. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    I love these dollar sized coins...I have a handful of these ranging from fine to AU cond. I've read that these circulated in the US on a regular basis during the silver shortage before the Morgan Dollar. These have a great future in numismatics and are a great buy at today's prices. Beware of raw coins having been cleaned or fake.
     
    longshot likes this.
  19. Colonialjohn

    Colonialjohn Active Member

    Try the GNL Counterfeits they are more challenging. BUt these are a good investment <VVBG>. JPL
     
  20. Black Friar

    Black Friar Supporter! Supporter

    Something with a little extra. Very late date for chop marks.
     

    Attached Files:

    Chiefbullsit and longshot like this.
  21. Chiefbullsit

    Chiefbullsit CRAZY HORSE

    Love those pieces. I have just gotten into Libertad's a few months ago. Thanks for the info and photos. I have some 2017 stuff plus this 1982 piece. Time to add a 1800's piece. mmmm-horz.jpg
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page