SMS Coins

The most significant difference between your evidence and Caleb's evidence is that yours is based upon PCGS's web site whereas Caleb's is based upon an email directly from PCGS.

I'd be more inclined to go with the email.

As for the "1964 SMS's", their existance has always been pure speculation since no documentation exists governing these coins and this speculation has been acceptable, so far, to the collecting community. As far as I know, no photographs exist of these coins within SMS Set Cello and their appearance in the open market was never really documented.

Did folks swallow a bunch of hype? Probably. But then the Kennedy's which fall into this "classification" are definitely from a unique die set. All appear to be high grade by current Kennedy grading standards and all are quite expensive.

Could it be that, at the time, since no other "classification" existed, collectors simply "opted" for the term SMS? This is what I think given the real facts governing the coins.

But what do I know?

 

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Interesting link...pretty much repeats what I've read elsewhere...

http://www.lincolncentresource.com/SMS_Lincoln_Cents.html

 

I see you posted this link a couple of years ago...you must know something!

http://www.pcgs.com/Articles/Detail/5334

 

That was then and this is now. Ideas, thoughts and opinions do change as new information and "out of the box" thinking gets presented.

Everybody, including myself, simply accepts the "conclusion" that these were from SMS Mints sets since its easy to get the mind wrapped around.
However, it may not be the case regarding these coins as there is simply no clear cut documentation or backup sources to validate the claims.

Website after website will simply continue to repeat what they've heard or read without clear validation. Yes, we turn to the TPG's for guidance but, TPG's are "grading services" that adapt their programs toward popular "trends" and "accepted" assumptions. Those trends and assumptions may or may not be based in fact.

I know that Caleb and his Dad have a deep understanding about Kennedy Half Dollars and if they are going to go outside the box, then I'll support them based upon their collective knowledge which is far more than what I currently possess.

The entire point being, the US Mint never issued a 1964 Special Mint Set. Exactly like the US Mint never Issued SMS Eisenhower Dollars although Prototype coins with "Special Stikes" do in fact exist.

 

I'd be more inclined to go with the glossary, as it stands as an official document they've posted on their website as a guide for people to use. The problem with email in general is, it sometimes ends up being how one person might define it and based on opinion, like the author of the email. SP in the coin collecting world is actually short for Specimen. I'd have to say this person in the email just terms it as special but in fact it still stands for specimen, which is just a special strike, it's better than a business strike but not a proof strike. I bet you could email anyone at PCGS, reference their glossary for SP and they'll all confirm it stands for Specimen, not Special Strike as their glossary states.

 

I just submitted the question to David Hall, Don Willis, Mike Faraone, Gordon Wrubel and Araceli Diaz and will post the replies.

 

From everything I've read on the subject, there are a few points that everyone "seems" to be in agreement (please correct or comment on any of these points)...

1. Eva Adams had coins as part of her estate.
2. Upon the death of Eva Adams (1991), Lester Merkin is "believed" to have purchased much of her coin estate.
3. Shortly thereafter, Stack's auctioned off many (if not all) of the Lester Merkin 1964 "SMS" coins...presumably obtained from the Eva Adams estate.
4. Every Numismatist that has examined these coins "in hand" agree that these coins possess characteristics which clearly set themselves apart from Business and Proof strikes.

It seems very odd (to me) that, if these coins were part of any type of SMS or special presentation set, none of the packaging survived. The packaging itself would be worth money. I would like to think that these coins were in sets that also contained the 1964-D Peace Dollar...which explains why the packaging had to be destroyed. What happened to the Peace Dollars? ...perhaps they're in the hands of a private collector waiting for a safe time to bring them out into the open.

...OR, it could be that these coins were simply specimen coins, struck under greater pressure, for the US Mint to display to Members of Congress...and Eva Adams somehow came to own them.

...I'm speculating like everyone else and will be very interested to know the result of your inquiry.

 

Are those guys just at PCGS? We should email well known guys at every TGP to get a more accurate description of the lingo.

NGC's glossary lists SP as specimen as well. http://www.ngccoin.com/news/Glossary.aspx

 

I have to study for an exam right now, but I will address your thesis later on and give you some “food for thought” why there are some holes.

 

I received a reply from David Hall.

----------------------------

From: David Hall Don't post emails publically ( http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=826610)
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 1:55 PM
To: Lee Lydston
Cc: Mike Faraone; Don Willis; Araceli Diaz
Subject: Re: Some Clarification Please
Specimen
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2012, at 1:24 PM, Lee Lydston Don't post emails publicallywrote:
Actually, it’s to settle a discussion.
Exactly what does the designation "SP" mean in reference to a numerical coin grade?

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Specimen it is then.

Caleb??

 

Is there a Capitol or similar style holder available for the 1965 SMS with space for or including a blue insert?
Thanks

 

I think this one is very different than SMS.. I won this piece as Brilliant Uncirculated... but the way I grade this one close to perfect 70.

 

Very similar fo a Matt Proof surfaces Obverse & reverse! SPECIAL STRIKE?

 

Redwin, I believe it is a SMS coin and not near a 70. Too distracting on the date and a couplee hits on the neck and face. 66 IMO

 

Redwin, this coin is more than likely a SMS coin. It has the typical luster of a 65 SMS Half. The mark free fields are exactly what you'd expect of a SMS coin.

As far as perfect 70... I really suggest you re-think that. I haven't seen the coin in hand and so grading it above 67 would be really difficult, but there's a ding on Kennedy's cheek and the reverse is kind of weakly struck. And those are just my quick first glance impressions.

You would never find either of those features on a coin that graded 68, let alone 70.

 

make up your mind... does it have special strike matte surfaces, or is it a circulation strike coin? I agree the surfaces are matte and I also believe that it's obvious that the coin is from a 65 SMS. You can't have it both ways.

Quit trying to see what you want to see and look at the coin to see what the coin says it is.

 

I can't see the email, it was edited out, can you pm it to me? Interested to see what David Hall said