small fractional siglos

List members have posted small fractional silver coins before. This one (compared to a US cent in a way pioneered by Doug) is 5 mm and 0.235 grams, which is 1/24 siglos. The fabric, like that of the sigloi, is lumpy and thick, making it smaller in diameter than most coins of its weight, which is already extremely small. The coin is remarkably well-centered for such a tiny piece.



The design is the Persian king in a running/kneeling posture right and the reverse is a punch mark without design. The comparable full siglos is very common. The Klein catalog of Greek fractions (Herr Klein collected small coins; klein = small in German) would date it to 510-486 BC under Darius I. Full size sigloi were minted for a long time after Darius I. All of the very small sizes with this type are rare; it is hard to find references for them. I don't know what evidence there is that this should be a fraction of the early type and not a fraction of the later very-similar sigloi. Anyway, it is very old and very small.

 

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=> and very cool (great new addition) ...

I love tiny incuse coins ... and your wee lil' Running King is certainly a total winner!! (congrats)

 

Neat! Yeah, I've seen the siglos and drics becausse they are common but not too many of these. I'm sure there was a need for fractional currency after they switched from the Lydian coinage. Looks like a nice piece, too :3

 

what a cool little coin!

don't drop it!!!

 

It is extrordinary what detail they could fit unto such small flans. We've discussed this here before, but I still have a hard time imagining the difficulty in cutting the dies w/o modern technology to assist in magnification.

 

Wow! I didn't know this type came in fractions that small. Very cool coin

 

News to me as well. I cant recall ever seeing a fractional siglos. Gotta love ancient coins. Its not uncommon to see something new everyday.

 

Yeah, these days the actual carvings are made into huge plates and then rotary machine copied to smaller sizes (I forget what the actual name is for that thing). Before, it was literally carving into the hammer that they used.

I had a siglos with some great detail; I'm kind of sad I sold it because I never see them that nice. They are usually worn so bad you can barely see the design. I'll find another though. Who knows? Maybe someone will have something at the Historical Bourse in SF this December.

 

You're thinking of the Janvier Reduction Lathes, but they are no longer in use. Today's technology consists of milling machines that carve the design directly onto the face of the master hub, from a digital model.

 

Neat comparison with the cent - that coin prolly spent a decent amount of time in some ancient mouths - people didn't have pockets, coin purses etc and often with the smallest coin the safest place was the mouth. But I have to wonder how many got swallowed in the process?

And as small as that one is, there are known 1/96th staters around - but not many have been found as they tended to be small enough to be easily lost or overlooked in archaeological digs.

 

Mine is 1/12 (too fat at .5g for this game) and very worn. It is, however, very unusual in that it has perfect centering with crown, bow, dagger and both feet on the flan. It is #69 on my favorites page.


While huge at 1/3 siglos, I do have a fraction in the early, bow drawing style attributed to Darius I. Unfortunately it is a fourree.


Any fraction smaller than a whole siglos is at least scarce.

 

Oh wow, things change fast. That makes sense though. Everything is digital these days. Thanks for the info ^^

I know they had them with the swastika electrum type coins from Ionia and I want one. I have a 1/48th. Gonna try to get the whole set ;3

It would make sense then for something like that in Persia, I guess.

 

I'm reviving this very ancient thread. I just bought a few fractional sigloi, and there's not much to find on the internet about these. Something on NumisWiki, but for instance none of these is mentioned in Mitchiner. Suggestions are welcome! I think there are some forms in the incuse reverses, but I can't decide what it is.
(Sorry for this cent, but it's the only one I have).

The first is a 1/24th siglos, my second smallest coin.
Obv. Persian king or hero in kneeling-running stance right, holding dagger and bow (?) Rev. Incuse punch with some symbol in it (?). 5 mm, 0.21 gr. Don't know the Carradice type.



This is the coin compared to my smallest, a 1/96th stater from Erythrae, 520-480 BC. 4 mm, 0.12 gr. I wrote about it here.



And here's my Achaemenid quartet all together.





1. AR Siglos. Carradice type IV (late) C. King running with 2 ringlets on his shirt. Artaxerxes II - Darius III, c. 375-336 BC. 14 mm, 3.70 gr. It’s a fourrée.

2. AR Quarter Siglos. Carradice Type IV, Group B. Time of Xerxes II - Artaxerxes II. Circa 420-375 BC. 8 mm, 1.27 gr.

3. AR Quarter Siglos. Carradice type IV? Time of Xerxes II - Artaxerxes II. Circa 420-335 BC. 9 mm, 1.21 gr.

4. AR 1/24 Siglos. Carradice type?? 5 mm, 0.21 gr.

 

FRACTIONAL ACHAEMENID SIGLOI

1/32nd


Persia Achaemenid Empire
Darius I 510-486 BCE
AR 0.11g 5mm
1/32nd Siglos
Persian hero-king in running
incuse
Klein 758 Rare

Quarter-Siglos

Persia Achaemenid
Type IV
dagger quiver running
Darius I to Xerxes II 455-420 BCE
AR QUARTER-Siglos
1.35g 8mm
Incuse rev

 

I'm relatively sure I see a Type II. This is the first I have seen of this early type this small.

 

Thanks, Doug. I think you are right. Here's the seller's pic for better comparison.

 

And my newest:



Iran. Achaemenid Empire. AR 1/3 siglos. Sardeis. Carradice Type IV, Group A. About 450-420 BC. 1/3 Siglos AR 10mm., 1.75g. banker's mark on obverse (Nr. 200?).

 

ACHAEMENID TETARTEMORION

About the size of my 1/32nd Siglos


CILICIA Uncertn Early-mid 4th C BCE AR Tetartemorion 5mm 0.17g Persian king running dagger and bow - Crowned hd Achaemenid king CNG E239 Troxell Kagan 4


Achaemenid Empire. Time of Dareios I, circa 510-486 BC. AR 1/32nd Siglos (0.11 gm, 5mm). Obv.: Persian hero-king r., in running-kneeling position. Rev.: Oblong incuse. Klein 758

 

I bought a small siglos fraction. Possibly a 1/48th! The diameter at largest point = 4 mm. The weight = .13 gr.
I bought it on eBay (Savoca) for $70 for the sole purpose of re-selling it to produce more hobby fund$. It sold for $175, giving me about $100 profit with which to buy other coins. All-in-all though, I now confess to seller's regrets. :-(


The smallest coin I still own is 6.4 mm. and .25 gr. A Yehud Hezekiah issue, Hendin 1069, a one-half ma'ah obol, with a surprisingly legible inscription (in view of its miniscule size) which translates "Governor Hezekiah". I bought it from J.P. Fontanille auction #83 in early 2016. Absolutely no regrets!!!

 

I always wondered if mine at 0.11g was a 1/48th vs. the 1/32nd Siglos that was attributed. When I review ACsearch, mine is a lower weight than the 1/32nd Siglos. But, mine could be leached to a lower weight.