Silver Round with Perched Eagle Reverse

No, that's not what I'm saying and you know this. The comparison to Carvel was given to clarify and is perfectly valid considering where this little debate has taken us. Instead of fucusing on the product itself, you're deflecting onto other factors. Valid as they may be, and certainly worthy of discussion/consideration, they simply have no part in the presented issue.

Since I know you're a car guy, perhaps this will make more sense. Your position that the willingness of certain individuals to pay premiums makes all the difference reminds me of how, some years ago, some people would buy body kits for their Fiero or Firebird in order to make it very remotely resemble a Testarossa. Sure, once installed the car looked "different" in a cheese ball sort of way, and obviously some were willing to pay up for the, ahem, "privilege", but at its heart the car didn't magically turn into a Ferrari. The iron duke didn't magically start breathing fire... at its core it still was what it was, and was nothing more than lipstick on a pig.

 

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That you argue with multiple other posters here, calling them "fanboys" and such, is evidence that you DO think anyone with an opinion different than yours is incapable of understanding.

Was any Ferrari buyer ever fooled into paying a Ferrari price for one of these Fiero/Firebird re-bodies ? No.

Your potential scenario is again way off because the apparent BRAND of the car is changed. If I were to take Eisenhower dollars and over-strike them as copper-nickel clad 1971 Draped Bust dollars, that might be closer to your car scenario. But my activities have not changed the basic design of the coin, only the date.

By the way, I once owned a 1988 Fiero (the "Formula" version with V-6 and 5-speed manual transmission). It was a actually a pretty good car and fun to drive. I did not have any problems with it. I would buy another 1988 V6 Fiero if I came across one for the right price. In no way would I call this car a "pig".

As an aside (skip this if not interested), here is a 100% true story that I experienced yesterday:

I was at a large car show in my local area. In conjunction with it, there was also a "classic" car auction. There were some neat cars in the auction, but none that really interested me for what I thought they could be bought for - except one. It was a 1989 Mercedes 560SL with some miles on it. It was the only one in the auction. The front grille on those looks the same as your avatar, of course. I've never owned one (or any foreign car other than Jaguar). I inspected it and did a little research on the internet to decide what I might bid. About half way through the auctions I went to the nearby office to register for a bidder's number. I hadn't registered earlier because the Mercedes was scheduled to cross the auction block towards the end of the sale. While the auction staff worked on my bidder application, people were talking about an irate customer they had to deal with just before. It seems the staff was bordering on being traumatized by the man who had consigned a car to the auction but demanded to be refunded and have his car withdrawn from the sale because it was allowed to get dusty while outside, and was scheduled towards the end of the event. I received my bidder card and with plenty of time left I went back outside to look at the Mercedes again. But it was gone. I went back to the office and asked about it. Yep, that was the one that the person had taken out of the auction.

That wasn't you was it ?

 

Fanboys, yes... I have, but usually stick with just "fans". But that's, of course, a horrible and rude term to use for others, obviously. "Hater" on the other hand, something you've repeatedly called those with opinions different than your own, and especially tactless coming from a man of your age, is apparently perfectly fine though. Another fine job of displaying the double standard, Mr. Carr...

 

I gave up giving my opinion because I was sick of being called a hater.

 

Thanks, Larry... sincerely. Others can vilify me as they see fit, but this is one of many perfectly clear and valid reasons why I say the double standard is alive and well.

 

Umm. I was, to the best of my knowledge, the originator of the term "haters" unless it has been used elsewhere previously unbeknownst to me. It was not, as I originaly stated, a pejorative but rather an accurate desciption of the few ad naseum posters amongst all forums who beat the tune of this broken record to death. If Dan used it he was probably referencing me and my use of it. Although I could be wrong and it could have been used by others well before I joined the party. I'm not sure. But I do know that the "haters" seem to take great offence to this seemingly accurate term when I use it and some act like they've never heard it before when I do.

 

And here I thought it was TayTay. Shake it off, and move on.

 

"Repeatedly" ? No.
I used that term in one thread titled "Just got the elusive 1916 Barber Half...." https://www.cointalk.com/threads/just-got-the-elusive-1916-barber-half.263831/page-9#post-2157077

It was used in quotation marks ( "haters" ) to indicate that the term was being used by others. Nor was it applied towards any particular user of this forum.

But that term is deservedly applied to one poster on another forum and that is who I was referring to. For background information on that, you can look here if you want:
http://www.moonlightmint.com/burdette_rebuttal_post.htm

An example of the latter is the people who have sent me death threats, and the "RWB" poster on another forum.

 

By your own admission you used it at least twice in that very thread.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/repeatedly

So at least twice... perhaps not the best choice of words, I admit (I'd have to waste more of my life reliving to be certain of how many other times it may or may not have been used), but it is, without question, something used "ad nauseam" by the fanboys, and always as a lame accusation/deflection when someone dares to question certain products of yours. Even little boy blue decided to inject it into this thread when it's pretty clear he knows not of what he speaks. If.... IF inappropriately attributed to you, I would apologize.

That said, you appear to imply that using certain words in quotation marks makes it okay, but I can think of many derogatory terms/words that wouldn't fly and would likely result in regrettable confrontation even if used that way. More double standard, sir?

As for the "death threats", that has absolutely nothing to do with me. I've never wished ill upon you, and no matter how much back and forth we do, never would. If you or anyone else wish to label such individuals as being "haters", it certainly seems fitting to me, but those of us who engage you even if in heated discussion? No...

 

Note to self: add this to the rapidly growing file labeled, "What the heck's the deal with RWB? Like, really."

 

Are you a hip-hoper, Cascade? Yo, homey, don be hatin, dog.

That said, I find it interesting that you have no problem with bashing and/or complaining about the US Mint and/or voicing your opinion elsewhere, without seemingly the slightest awareness or concern for those who may like/enjoy the target of your (debatable) vitriol. However, when others dare dispute or in some cases degrade what you like, well, that's a problem and those who feel different are certainly deserving of your belittling, right? High road or low; your call.

 

I remember when Mr. Carr bought the press and had nothing but fans. Folks were so proud of his work in bringing the machine back to life and everyone was having a great time watching and learning. Really cool for the hobby.
I will never understand why someone would mess up such a following when it never needed to happen.

 

Man, you really need to stop saying/implying that your products cannot fool anyone. There's certainly a very good reason why, on your FTC post, you defined those not likely to be fooled as "average collectors of that coin type", which is an infinitely more fair and reasonable statement. People are dumb; you know this as well as I do, and is particularly true of some when dreaming of a deal. You also know this isn't my issue with what you do, and I'm a firm believer that you can't fix stupid, but still, as long as humans exist there will be the very real chance someone could be fooled by them. This may not completely be on you, but it's certainly a very real possibility.

That said, the BRAND of your copies has changed as well. It's now your, ahem, "art", and not at all a copy of anything, remember? Your whole argument, at times and particularly in this thread, seems to be based upon your name, so distance yourself from that now? The car example was fair if we considering it using the same justifications you've used for your products. It's one thing being made to look like another for the sole purpose of making a buck. God bless them and you for finding a way of doing so, but it is what it is and no amount of fluff can change that. Their intent is to allow people to make their car (very remotely) look like something it's not, and you essentially do the same by allowing coins to look like something they're not. Your 64 Peace or 16 Barber halves are not the "real" thing, right?

As for the Feiro GT you owned, I'm certainly glad you enjoyed and had no problems with it, but I owned an 88 Olds Cutlass Supreme International with, I believe, the same engine and transmission (2.8 V6 and Getrag 5 speed manual - so correct me if wrong) and was one of the biggest turds I've ever driven, or at least became so far too early in its life. Foolish me was drawn in by the then ultra-modern near "spaceship" looks of the car, but should've known GM in the 80's was, well, GM in the 80's. Hey, I actually liked the Fiero when initially released, and "enjoyed" driving a first year model that later went the way of 1945 Tokyo, but looking back they really were cheese balls. The 88's certainly were the best of the bunch though.

Oh, and I'm sorry to disappoint you, but no... That wasn't me. You have my word.

 

The death threats I received for making those 2006 Amero coins came prior to my acquisition of the press. One of the ANA Summer Seminar classes still has an all day field trip to my mint each year for the students to see the minting process in person.
Everyone continues to enjoy that.

So although your statement indicates that things are now different than they were in 2008, in reality things are pretty much the same now as they were then.

 

I have not been following this closely, but since you brought up a car analogy, I will bite. I consider cheaper bullion or chinese pieces to be like your example of a crappy car with a crappy body kit, supposed to look nicer. I view DC pieces as a modified REAL car. I just read a story of a new mustang that was heavily modified to look like an older one. Still a real stang, but modified to be different.

 

Yes, a lot of people are "dumb". But a person who is willing to spend a lot of money for something is generally not going to be stupid about that particular thing. It takes knowledge to gain the motivation to spend up for something.

It is one thing to not know much about coins and spend $10 on a whim for a coin you hope might be worth a couple hundred dollars or more. It is entirely different to actually spend thousands of dollars on a coin. A lot of people have been disappointed over the years to find out that the coin they have is not worth much. But in those cases they generally found, inherited, or were given the coin, or spent little for it.

A fantasy-date over-strike coin is an altered coin. This would be equivalent to a customized car that is modified in such a way as to make it look different than other cars, but still recognizable as the same basic brand and model.

The Fiero I had was the "Formula" version, not the "GT" version. No matter, either had the 2.8 V6 with automatic or manual transmission (mine had the Getrag 5-speed manual). The 1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass had several optional engines. The 2.8 V6 was the smallest and had the lowest-output of the bunch. In general, I would never buy a car that came with the bottom engine. That is just me. And the Cutlass weighed about 600 pounds more than the Fiero (depending on optional equipment).

If you wanted a good GM car from the late 1980s, you should have obtained a Buick Grand National, or better yet, a 1987 Buick GNX. Or any pre-1988 rear-wheel drive GM intermediate-size car. Those were generally superior to those from most of the 1990s. If I ever get an Olds Cutlass, it will be a 1968-1972 model with the 350 or 455 Olds V8.

I wouldn't have been pleased or disappointed. Only surprised.

 

Maybe for you but not for many others in this hobby.

 

You're mistaken; I'm talking about the horrid 1988 Olds Cutlass Supreme International. You seem to, and reasonably so, be confusing it with the older RWD model. The one I owned was the first-year, gasp, FWD model and the 2.8 was actually the top available. Starting in I believe 1990 the so-called "high output" DOHC model was introduced, but it wasn't available at the time of my oh-so brilliant purchase and I digress.

Regardless, point is I believe it was the same engine and transmission as your Fiero. Unfortunately in my case the car, mechanically, physically, and everything in between was an utter dog.

I'll get to the rest tomorrow. Have a nice evening.

 

I was certainly aware that the RWD Cutlass was last produced for the 1988 model year, and the first FWD Cutlass was first produced for the 1988 model year. I knew that your was the FWD version. But, apparently, details on the internet regarding available engines are sketchy.

Regardless, yes, I think a 2.8 V6 is pretty small for any mid-size American car, especially when it lacks forced induction (as these did).

 

You may be right; it's not as if I've bothered to look at what info is available on engine options that year.

You're certainly right about the engine, but let's be honest here; the 2.8 was, to be blunt, disgraceful, even when coupled with a 5 speed manual, particularly in that car.