Silver Round with Perched Eagle Reverse

Neutral corners. Dans works were never meant to decieve. How can they be counterfeit? Placing 'copy' on a work of art diminishes the work indeed.

 

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Interesting...I didn't realize that I had had used it before.
That will happen when your over 70 years old, but don't worry if I get the opportunity I'll use it again.

 

Ah... I see, but you hadn't used it before; Green did. All is well though.. I can relate to your ailment. Wear it as a badge of honor; you've earned it.

 

Did I say his copies are counterfeit, Green? No, I did not, and in all the back and forth I never have, so please don't put words into my mouth; you're above that.

As yes... Placing "copy" on a work of art does diminish it, but when that so-called work of art is NOTHING BUT A COPY of someone else's art, it's altogether fitting.

Do you believe what we often refer to as "Chinese counterfeits" should be marked copy? You do realize those producing them are not doing it to decieve but to simply fill a demand, right? If you want to argue dates, let's consider the 1903-CC as one example of many. If you would consider it either "art" or a respectable "fantasy piece" I can certainly respect that, but if you feel it's counterfeit or any different than Mr. Carr's copied end product, it's absolute hypocrisy.

 

And that's what he and I do. It's been going on for quite some time now, and isn't likely to change, so if you don't like it, don't read it. Its infinitely predictable and easily avoidable.

 

The epitome of self promotion on this board now worries about the rules? And you just can't understand why I call you a hypocrite.... You do understand the definition of "ignorant", right? If facts are against the rules, I'll consider myself guilty as charged.

 

I'd say it's more one-sided books. See my previous post

 

That's your inner fanboy rearing its ugly head, Cascade....

You're one of the very few here who've admitted they simply enjoy this type of copying and would purchase the same type of product from other makers. I've always respected you for that as it goes against the double standard so many here have, but still, to call this one sided? I expected better from you.

 

My badge of Honor

 

Whatever floats your boat... Fair enough.

 

I've never started a thread here about things I mint so as to promote them.

You are the one that is doing all the "promotion" for my wares. Like this thread, for example. It would have ended after my first post. But you made a farcical spectacle out of it.

 

"The ultimate hypocrite is the one who perceives hypocrisy all around, but never in himself."

 

You haven't started a thread; so what? That in NO WAY means you do not use this forum to promote your wares, and in fact I distinctly recall you receiving a warning for doing just that, so please don't play little Mr. Innocent here.

While you do admit as much and deserve credit for it, you don't like to make very clear the fact that your copies are nothing more than the result of computers and CNC reproduction. We've heard your comparisons to Warhol much more often than you discussing your "work" being the direct result of modern technology. How many times has it been implied that your dies are hand made and nothing is said to correct the individual? Many, but is something that needs to be said for anyone unfamiliar to make an educated decision as to what they see your copies as being. If I do your advertising for you, as I've told you before; that's great and you're welcome.

As for this spectacle, it's just another example of your refusal to give others the same that you demand for yourself. If "art" is so wide and varied that the exact copying of the work of genuinely talented individuals should rightly be considered to be "art", at least have the decency to do unto others.... It's quite simple, really.

 

More quotes, huh? And to think, you didn't bother to attribute it to anyone or give them credit. See the pattern here?

I'm human and I do see it in myself. The thing is, unlike you, I make a conscious effort not to be one.

 

Basically trying to be nice , and yes I do like a couple of your rounds for what they are . But to tell the honest truth , I think my last post is right on the mark . I'm sure you must of taken an art class or two Mr. Carr , what grade did you get and I'll bet 1/2 the glass could draw better than you . So as long as you trash others art , I will speak what I really feel .

 

I don't have to give credit to the author of that quote if I don't feel it is necessary.

You fail.

A while back you said that I was "robbing the legacy" of the original designers of the coins by over-striking them ?
But then I found a previous post about a "hobo" carved Indian Cent that was made to look like a non-Native American cartoon character and you said that it was "good work". And I called you on it. I said, if anything, over-striking the original coin with a high-quality rendition of the design was actually a tribute to the original. Unlike the "Hobo" carving which destroyed the original.
Remember that ?

 

No kidding... Just like you don't give credit to those, with genuine TALENT, you copy designs from either. It's clearly a habit with you, so trust me... I'm not at all surprised you refuse to give credit where and when it's due. No one should be.

Of course if anyone DARES to copy a few of your words without giving credit, just like the ebay dude did, off a crying you go... and you don't think that little word fits you.

 

I do remember that. What part of the individual using THEIR OWN HANDS do you not understand? You seem to think you stumbled onto a biggie with that thread, yet I'd also tell a kid with finger paints they did a "good job" too. Someone using computers to copy the work of others while refusing to give credit? Not a chance... I said you're robbing the legacy simply because you steadfastly refuse to give credit to others in the same way you demand it for yourself.

Unlike others, I couldn't care less what or how many coins you destroy. It has nothing to do with the issue here.

Why don't you, once and for all, explain IN DETAIL how your copies are produced? EXACTLY how do such exacting designs make it onto your computer and later the dies? Is it hand-eye coordination or or something else? You're the one who refuses to admit you copy anything, so tell the board EXACTLY how the original designs manage to get into your computer program and later to the CNC machine. Come on, Mr. Carr; what have you, the "great artist", to hide? Show your detractors once and for all that you do not copy and all this will go away. Hell, you may even get a few more fans out of it. Show some class.... if what you do is actually a "tribute" to the original as opposed to an exacting copy, prove it.

 

I have several points to refute that:

1) The fantasy-date over-strike coin designs in question are, by law, public domain and can not be copyrighted.

2) All of the certificates which are part of the packaging for my fantasy-date over-strike coins credit the original designers.

3) I don't have to credit the author of that quote ("The ultimate hypocrite is the one who perceives hypocrisy all around, but never in himself") because I am the author of it. I made it up for this occasion. Of course, in your blind obsession, you would fail to consider that.

Remember when I found some pictures on the internet of fake tokens which used my original copyrighted designs without permission, and I posted those pictures on my web site ? And then you went off on some long diatribe about how I "stole" the pictures, etc. ?
But as obsessed as you are, you never even thought or bothered to ask if I had permission to use those pictures ? I did actually have permission. Remember that ?

 

All art is inspired by (is a copy of) something that came before it.
By your logic, because technology is used, photography (for example) can't be an art form. But it is. The tools do not really matter.

I've covered this topic several times on various forums. It is not a secret.
After obtaining a degree in Mechanical Engineering, I spent many years working in the software industry. I spent a couple years writing my own sculpting program because there was nothing available that would do what I wanted. I use that program for all the dies that I produce.

There are three different ways that I produce a digital "sculpt" for a die:

1) I do a pencil sketch on paper, refine it, and then scan it into a digital image. I import that image into my sculpting program, converting image brightness into surface height. The result is a flat surface with small ridges where the pencil lines were. Using the sculpting techniques built into my program, the sculpture is filled out using techniques akin to hammering, scraping, and pushing digital "clay" around. This is not automatic. It still has to be done by hand, using the mouse and various tools to define the surface. The same skills needed to sculpt in plaster or clay are need to do free-form sculpting digitally. This is similar to what the US Mint and other modern world mints do today.

2) I take a photograph using my camera and convert it to black & white. I import that image into my sculpting program, converting image brightness into surface height. The result has the grayscale levels in the image transformed into surface height (darker = lower, brighter = higher). Significant additional sculpting is usually required to arrive at a suitable sculpt for a coin or medal. Text, rims, and other elements are then sculpted in as well.

3) Using an optical probe, I can "digitize" an existing surface, such as a coin or medal. This requires some pretty expensive and hard-to-use equipment. I also had to write significant additional software specifically for this, since there was nothing available off-the-shelf that could do what I wanted. Once that digitization is complete, I can refine the sculpt in my program. Refinements typically include sculpting in a different date and/or other elements.

Once the digital sculpt is ready, my program outputs millions of coordinate points to my CNC milling/engraving machine to guide the cutting bit to engrave a die.

If this was easy, a lot more people would be doing it. But it isn't. And they aren't.
It took a LOT to get to the point where I am now. The amount of work was enormous. But now that I have everything in place, I can produce better dies much faster than anyone else.

What have you accomplished, other than being envious of others' skills and success ?