Significance of "haymarks" on British coins

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Bart9349, Aug 20, 2011.

  1. Collector1966

    Collector1966 Senior Member

    So how do you explain copper spots and copper streaks that are so common on US gold coins? Since copper has a lower melting point than gold, it should be completely absorbed into the gold, right?
     
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  3. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    That would seem to be my best explanation as well, though its remarkable how many of them end up graded by NGC and PCGS even though evidently cleaned.
     
  4. Collector1966

    Collector1966 Senior Member

    Perhaps someone can explain how this coin "toned" the way it did:
     

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  5. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    If the gold melt is allowed to cool too long or too slowly, as the metal solidifies the different metals will try to separate from solution based on density and melting point. This can result in the outer surfaces of the cast ingot being slightly richer in copper than the interior. When the ingot is rolled out this results in areas or spots of higher copper content on the surface of the strip.
     
  6. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    Doesn't look like tone or streaking to me. I would grade it "original uncleaned covered with black crud AU50" --Incidentally, what did NGC grade it as?
     
  7. Collector1966

    Collector1966 Senior Member

    The coin graded NGC-55.
    http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=3088&lot=1212

    The "black crud" is in all likelihood due to copper discoloration (and is not foreign matter). Here is an explanation about ugly spotting on gold coins. While it is focusing on gold coins, it would also apply to silver coins.
    http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/redspotsongoldcoins.html
     
  8. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    I am familiar with red spotting, I have a Czech ducat from 1931 that is spotted so bad its tempting to quarintine the coin lest some of the others catch the disease. But seriously..,,The spots, are red to dark orange, nothing at all like the surface of your half-eagle. The spotting on your coin looks like it is held on by adhesion of some sort, not as a discoloration of the metal itself. Not unlike this recent coin from Bowers & Marina.
    http://www.stacksbowers.com/auctions/AuctionLot.aspx?LotID=230832
     
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    But it doesn't have lower melting point. It has a higher melting point than gold. And that explains it very well.

    melting point of gold - 1947.9 degrees F
    melting point of copper - 1981.4 degrees F
     
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

  11. moneyer12

    moneyer12 i just love UK coins.......

    firstly tin has only ever been used in halfpence and farthings both of which contained a copper plug,
    secondly the production of tin in the uk was almost exclusively from cornwall, wales produced copper and birmingham never had mines of any description.
     
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