show us your unusual coins.

Hmmm, interesting. Personally I doubt that number for total Russian plate money. I have personally seen that many. I know there are a number of forgeries, but there are some of these out there. I wonder if that is only referring to a certain issue of plate money, or all. You well could be right they are 100x rarer, I did say 10x at least.

 

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The hammer price would agree with you completely. 2008 was the high of the Russian coin market. A coin with truly only 3 examples known would have done 6 figures, not 1k and change.
I've seen a few of these on eBay, but can honestly say none were genuine.

 

zambia coins

 

how about something else from 250 bc celtic ring money..............................

 

Lots of those get sold. I have never really bought that they were money above the fact that any form of metal could be used for bartering. I used to believe possibly they were, then I read an article about bridles. Bridles, even ancient ones, have tons of little rings in their manufacture. One bridle found from an ancient battlefield, or even from a farmstead, could yield 40 of these. Because of that, and the fact I have never read any proof other than one small passage in an ancient text that mentions "ring money" as an aside, I simply treat them as ancient metal rings.

Cool little things, no offense meant Moneyer, and I own some myself. This is a major problem with non-typical money, proving they were actually coins. I feel the same about a great deal of chinese "proto money" as well.

Chris

 

these were found in many hoards in the uk and france, they are genuine means of exchange used in celtic times. the real celtic ring money coins are generally made from bronze.

 

I understand sir, but many pieces of metal are found in hoards, and bridles of the era had bronze rings since it was an easier metal to work with. Have you seen these hoards? A friend in southern Germany metal detected, and would find caches of bronzes rings like these, usually all in one area, sometimes with one or two coins, but never in a pot or similar storage vessel.

IDK, I just don't see a lot of evidence for them numismatically. We can agree to disagree sir.

Chris

 

I agree with you Chris. There are other things often marketed as numismatic items that may not necessarily be. Like cowrie shells and this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1700s-SLAVE...407?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aabf28827
Maybe it depends on where one draws the line at with numismatic items. I suppose one can consider anything that can be bartered as currency, but I consider numismatic items as those that have little or no use outside of being used as currency.

 

I have only ever seen one piece of Russian plate money that was genuine - this in a museum in city Khabarovsk a few years ago. But in Russian coin market there are many many many fakes nowadays. I have seen so many of the fakes, Moldova 1772/3 coins, Siberian coins, plates etc that often at coin fairs I don't even give them a second look when I see them. That said I have seen coins that I suspect of being fake in Molotok Auctions, and even some of the auctions in Europe and the USA.

 

I am careful to refer to my unusual stuff not as a coin, but as money. Coins to me are round, or typically scalloped in shape or with hole in them etc. Little dolphin shaped things, or these spear points - they were traded like money - but they are not coins. Katangan crosses, and Laotian tiger tongues are money, but not coins.

Here is coin though, my oldest very large sized piece:



This is Æ 46 of Ptolemy IV from ca 280-246 BC - very large cast coin that is comparable in size to Birmingham threepence token shown prior. I am guessing that after coin was cast, it was weighed then put in a planning device to shave off the extra weight - why there are dimples in centre of each side of piece.

 

Actually sir I believe the majority opinion on center pivots is that they were used to round and weight a flan before striking. There is amply evidence upon microscopic examination that the center pivot is compressed by the striking. There are even issues with these pivots in every state of view depending on the strike. Under the design is also sometimes found surface striations in a circular motion.

For others, this method of manufacture started on the large bronzes of Ptolemaic Egypt, but continued through the Roman provincial coins in the east through the 3rd century. It was quite widespread, but not completely understood why.

Chris

 

Well some of them can be very convincing until you really get up close and personal with them. =)

I've found the 18th century Siberian issues troubling as well. For one thing, there are so many die varieties with slight differences in position of details. This makes picking out the fakes quite tedious.

Not proud of it, but about 3 years ago I sold a Siberian 10 kopeks that I was sure was genuine. But it ended up being a very good modern fake. The knowledgeable people who looked at it in pictures where mostly convinced it was real. But the few who spent some time analyzing it in person all felt it was a high end fake. Needless to say I learned a lot that month. =)

Makes me wonder about the one from the Stack's auction. Perhaps some of the more serious bidders had their doubts? That would explain why it sold fairly cheap.

 

Here's a metal head collection

Fibre


Silver + Tantalum


Antimony


And a silver sycee


Other metals and alloys are relatively 'common' other than the usual expensive precious metals.

 

Now those really are unusual coins gxseries. A lot of the coins posted in this thread are really not unusual at all if you collect foreign. Love that sycee, though I wouldn't risk buying one now-a-days.

 

my friends,much greater experts than i have researched the usage of ring money and it is universally accepted that celtic ring money is a genuine numismatic item. so perhaps you know more than the curators of the many museums which display these coins in their coin galleries.

 

1953 Aluminum Proof like

 

Swedish Plate Money

If you click on the images you should see them fairly close to actual size - as I sized them to lifelike size. The first is the 1 Daler coin from the reign of Karl XII and it is somewhat more unusual for having been made during the Great Northern War with Russia - during this time most money was made as little tokens with Roman gods on them:



Like all of my plate money, it is not sea salvage from the wreck of the Nicobar. Most plate money comes from that shipwreck and is heavily damaged from salt water corrosion.

 

here is some odd ones