Show and Tell - Part I

Here's the image shown in my KM for the 24 mariengroschen. It's likely that different dies were used during the minting, hence you have variants. The fat horse one looks a bit cruder in design though. Perhaps KM got their pictures screwed up and it's actually showing a slightly different variety, but i don't think so.

I've also enclosed an image of a 1/3rd taler from Brunswick Wolfenbuttel to show you that the skinny horse appears to be the `norm' (well, it is on all the coins I have of BrWolf......all eight of them ).

Ian

 

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Those are different horses for sure, but I am inclined to believe that the fat horse is not a mistake, just a fat horse. The coin on the French site looks like it may have been made using the same dies as my coin. Seems like odd damage patterns on both coins. I wonder if the dies were flawed.

Oddly enough, a war horse just like that is on my family crest, on the German side. I am in the process of making a crest and will eventually have to paint a fat horse. I like the sylized war horse. Real war horses were much thicker than Arabians, wild ponies, and quarter horses. Nothing is cooler than a full-dress team of Budweiser Clydsdales and a beer wagon. I saw a team of American buffalo pulling a wagon at a rodeo recently. That was also cool.

Does anyone know what the French report says about my 24 Marien Groschen coin?

 

Just different dies + whatever else is going on with any overstrike if anything.

Provide a url to the text and i'll see what I can do in terms of translation.

Ian

 

Stupid me. :goof:


http://cgb.fr/monnaies/vso/v07/v070188.html

 

It basically says what I said concerning who / what is on the coin. The only additional information diven is `normal style but well struck for a type that is often badly made'.

CGB also refer to it as a `gulden' (which I hadn't considered) and provide a Davenport reference D-337.

Now then I do have a copy of Davenport's `Silver Gulden 1559 - 1763), and now we have an explanation. CGB are actually wrong with their attribution.

They quote the same KM as I did and say D-337......but D-337 has the same type horsie as shown in KM!

However......... D-338 has a horsie just like yours, same obverse legends, but the reverse legends of D-338 are different.

The explanation: the type changed in 1693. Yours is struck using an obverse die from KM 608 (D-338) and a reverse die from KM 586 (D-337). It's as simple as that (as well as whatever else is going on with it).

Before you ask, it is not uncommon for reverse ./ obverse dies to from different types to end up being mixed ( getting the most `life' out of workable dies). The coin is however just that little extra bit different as a consequence.

CGB noted their coin as having a value of between £45 and £70 ($75 - $120). As always, CGB and their pricing tends to reflect the wishful thinking sector of the marketplace. Great site for general info but absolutely lousy for pricing.

 

Again, thank you very, very, much. There is no way on God's green earth that I would have ever come up with all that information. You are a scholar and a gentleman.

 

Quote-Ian
The Brit silver is indeed a double florin, aka 4/-, aka four shillings, aka `four bob'. It is .925 silver, weighs 22.6207 gms (actual silver content being .6727 ozs). In 1889 there was an error coin with the second I in Victoria being a 1. You don't have to bother with that though 'cause yours is the plain Jane one. That date ranges in value from around $25 in Fine through to $140 in Unc.

Wow Ian,
I don't remember paying more than $25 for mine.It was in my dealer's GB box and I just liked the look of it..good deal!

 

Very nice indeed.

Your one is dated 1887, Vicky's silver jubilee year and the start of the double florin series. There are two varieties and their proofs for 1887. The first digit in the date is either a roman style 1 or an arabic style I. Yours appears to be the arabic style, which historically price wise tends to command slightly more. Now...if you wanted a complete set, it is very do-able

Ian