Should I grant an eBay refund for a coin received 21 days ago?

Sad, but true...

I don't sell much on FeeBay, but I have a couple of ideas to use if I do in the future. I will have a witness present when I pack and ship packages. I will place an invoice inside the box that has my initials as "Order processed by:" and their initials as "Verified by:".

If I ever have to process a return, I will politely let the buyer know I will have a witness present when I open their package.

With any luck, these measures would help keep most buyers honest.

 

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As an aside, I just looked at my "Blocked Bidder/Buyer list" on eBay and the vast majority of users listed are now NARU (defunct) which comes as no surprise. eBay should NARU anyone who's blocked by more than a certain number of reputable sellers imho. However eBay makes money through listings (including relistings) and transactions so they're not terribly motivated to discipline bidders.

As another aside, you can introduce any terms you like into your auction listings but they are not enforceable if they conflict with eBay policies. So read up on those policies.


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To hold up in the face of possible legal proceedings, "risky" returns need to be processed by an independent third party, with video documentation and multiple witnesses. An attorney's office for example.

This sounds like a major exercise (and it is!), but it hardly ever becomes necessary as IME the mere mention of such a policy is enough to scare off any and all criminals.

 

I always thought that a seller's return policy didn't matter. You can say that you only accept returns within x days, but if the buyer files a claim, Ebay will force you to take the item back and refund the buyer even if it is outside your return policy. I've had some terrible experiences and I had to do crazy things to maintain my 100% feedback. I hate Ebay, so I try Craigslist first.

 

Yeah, eBay doesn't work like that. Just imagine all the junk (coins or otherwise) that people would try to pass off if it was actually that easy. You can SAY no refunds, but eBay WILL refund the the money as part of buyer protection as soon as you send the item back and have proof of it. They will then take the amount from the seller.

 

.I just called eBay. The guy on the phone said that the buyer can open a case of course. He said I have a chance of winning if they find that this is "buyer's remorse." Otherwise the worst case scenario is they force me to refund and force him to send it back to me.

 

"High Grade Example"

Please.

Return the guy's money.

 

I see this as intentional deception as well, and I see more negatives in your future if you continue this business plan.

 

This is the negative feed back the buyer wrote. "The coin he sold me was cleaned and now I cannot use it to be certified" If he's buying $400 coins to send them to be graded, then he needs to educate himself more. Regardless if the word "high grade" was in the description, there are very good pictures that clearly show the condition of the coin. He should have done his research before buying and get a second opinion on the pictures if he was that unsure which he obviously was. So now it takes him over 14 days to figure this out and then demands a refund? BS. This is why I don't sell things on eBay.

 

Grade has zilch to do with being cleaned. There are Unc coins that have been cleaned. Cleaned coins can be "high grade".

 

A contract is a contract. Ebay items and Used Car theory should come into place here.
If you didn't mislead the buyer, tough call.

If the coin had gotten a new slab from PCGS at a lower grade then he expected would he asked you for a refund then also?

What is the buyer seeking.

I usally give buyers refunds within the 14 day Ebay window no questions asked unless BINS. After that I don't know. Probably would, but I am thinking something stinks here because buyer rushed to get it slabbed. Sorry, jmho. G

 

So here's a summary: I have a 14 day return policy. After 21 days, the buyer says, "PCGS says this coin is cleaned. I want a refund!" I emailed him back saying, "I have a 14 day return policy, but I'll work with you if you work with me because I feel bad you sent it to PCGS and it came back cleaned." He then replies, "I didn't actually send it to PCGS, but a dealer I showed it to knows a guy at PCGS and he says I shouldn't bother cuz it's cleaned." So I said, "This is well past my 14 day return policy, but I'll give you a $120 refund and you can keep the coin." Then he says, "Everybody knows a cleaned coin is only worth silver value, nothing more. Give me all my money back or I'm filing a dispute." I replied, "You lied to me when you first said 'PCGS says it's cleaned,' Take the $120. That's my final offer." Then he leaves a negative and emails me saying "This is your last chance or I'm filing the dispute." I haven't replied to that one. Just waiting on the dispute. It hasn't started yet but I'm sure it will soon.

 

I feel the same way, Has happened to me many times. I had a few buyers buy a high dollar coin slabbed and graded by PCGS and then emails a week later buyer telling me he wants a refund because the coin looks like it has an issue.

I refunded per my selling practices. Well, I just happen to check his feedback and he buys another coin like the one I sold him for $50.00 less then a month later I see the same coin he bought off of Ebay sold on Teletrade for a $200 bump.

Some people play this flipping game at others expense. I rarely sell high dollar coins anymore on the bay. Getting back final fees, both ebay/paypal and losing $40 shipping fees for postage/insured delivery it's not worth it. Oh my time is like some lawyers at $250 an hour to list items on the bay. LMAO..

Just my 2 cents. G

 

A couple of things. On the half...when you bid on something raw you take chances. The only way I would refund after my stated number of days, which is also 14, would be if the coin came back as counterfeit. Cleaned, whizzed, blah, blah, whatever, I don't care. I run good photos just like the op did and people bid on what they want to believe or see with their eyes. when they get it if they are then unhappy they have 14 days to return it in the original package...after that they keep it.
On the half cent. If a dealer sold you a coin he believed to be cleaned and AU for a discount, but you didn't believe it to be cleaned, would you mention a 3rd party called it cleaned when you listed in on ebay. NGC, PCGS, ANACS, etc, the grades on the outside of the slabs ARE OPINIONS. That is why we say buy the coin not the slab. The op liked the coin, bought the coin, believed the coin to be better that a third party's opinion, dumped the opinion he deemed superfluous and then listed with his description. Someone liked the coin enough to purchase it. I see no problems with this.

 

Call ebay right away and tell them and show them what this buyer has said. It's fraud and you should win the case and have your negative feedback remove. It was kind of you to offer the $120. Now the buyer is jerking your chains and that's not fair in my opinion. Buyers remorse. Call ebay please.

 

You are mistaking "high grade" as being uncirculated, for example, regardless of what damage has occurred. That is not true. A high grade coin is a gradable coin. Cleaned coins, corroded coins, holed coins, other problems, etc. are all Ungradable. So they can't be "high grade".

For ethical coin collectors/dealers, this is an important point. Which is why if you have a coin to sell that you know has been cleaned and you are selling to any Tom, Dick and Harry (you don't know the buyer and his/her education on coins) then you should be letting the prospective buyers know what you know about the coin. And not say "High Grade Example" when you know it is cleaned, because anyone who can say it's a cleaned coin should not expect it to be able to be given a grade and pull the same price as a non-cleaned coin with the same amount of circulation (if any).

 

I've kinda gotten over my first negative after a few hours of high anxiety. I've got 3700 positives and this was bound to happen one day. Check all the major sellers. Heritage (their eBay account), GSC, etc, etc. They've all got negatives. I always thought it was bound to happen one day, so whatever. But I'd like to say this: I know I'm far from perfect, folks, and sometimes the pressure to make money makes people do things that is against their beliefs & nature, myself included. There are things I need to change. Things I need to do with more integrity. I try to run a good business, and I think I do all-in-all. But I am flawed and I know that. But guess what... time to move on. Improve and move on.

 

So this pic is the one from the OP's auction (initial post)? The buyer lacked the experience to detect the cleaning, sends it off to the graders (hoping for a high grade) and winds up with 'nuts'. The buyer must have paid extra to have the coin graded so quickly, but still received it back way past OP's return privilege time frame. The buyer is stuck with his purchase and not entitled to a refund in MHO.

As for OP's half cent crackout, welcome to the real world people. There's always someone ready to take the bait and the fact that the coin was obviously cleaned just reaffirms Caveat Emptor. If you're willing to play the e-bay buying game, as opposed to purchasing in hand, you're taking a chance, and inexperienced buyers maximize that risk of making mistakes in purchasing.

 

Here is what I think you should do. Originally I said you were OK to not refund the money. But, believe it or not...I never actually looked at your auction title. I simply looked for a 1838 Reeded half that sold for $406 and click on it and I looked at the ad the photo. Even though the photo is clear and you said the buyer should determine the grade before bidding...you still listed it as "high grade" in the title (which I originally missed). Now that I see that...I reverse my stance and say the proper thing to do is give a full refund. The coin is clearly cleaned based on the photos...anyone with any experience should know that. You have previously stated in another thread that you are an "online dealer" so IMHO, you have no excuse for not knowing it was cleaned. If that is the case, by listing the coin as "high grade" you deceived the buyer. For that reason alone, you should offer a full refund.

Now, I know the buyer lied...he shouldn't have. I would refund the money and then try and get eBay to remove the negative. I know they can do that...at the very least you can make a statement on it that you refunded the money and still got a neg.

Cleaned coins can still be "high grade" if they are properly cleaned. But, this coin has been harshly cleaned and it is clear from the photo. This coin can never be high grade. So, cleaning does have a lot to do with the grade...if the cleaning damages the coin (as it did here) the coin is upgradable.

 

You can complain all you want because it's not in your 14 day window, and your offer to "discount" the coin to a price of 286 dollars because he is now aware it's cleaned and has significantly less value that a similar uncleaned one. But the overriding fact is that you sold it on ebay, and ebay has buyer protection that will most likely now result in ebay taking all his money from you and returning it to him. It is, in layman's terms, SNAD (you never said it was cleaned, and you intimated that it was "high grade", meaning it was gradable). And you solicited positive feedback from him for the 120.00 (it can be seen in that light).

Really doesn't matter if in a non-ebay situation that you could have held him to that policy.