Should I grant an eBay refund for a coin received 21 days ago?

this thread lets me know that some people take ebay WAY too seriously.

to the op, i feel like you have good ground to stand on, and it is up to the buyer to take a risk and buy that item. NO ONE made him figure out his max price, enter it in the bidding field and then press enter, he did that himself, and largely based off the pictures.

NOWHERE on ebay, or ebay's policies is it listed or implied that a seller has the duty to ensure a coin comes back as problem free from a TPG, like Detecto said, one TPG's cleaned coined could be the next TPG's problem-free top population coin, they only offer an OPINION, not a set in stone, concrete determination, even their TOS says as much. (remember the thread from Lost Dutchman i think about that nice gold piece he sent in and was cleaned from grader to be problem free from the next?)

Secondly, this coin would fall under 'USED' items (in my eyes only mint released products would be considered -NEW), and any used item I have ever purchased has always had the expressed or implied stipulation that since it is used, and unless grossly misrepresented, you are simply buying the product 'AS-IS', and it is up to you as the buyer to be aware of any defects or faults. If there were sufficient pictures available to the buyer and he even had an inkling of an idea that it was cleaned, then it was up to him to make that purchase. I also always leave a clause saying as much when i am selling stuff on ebay, if its a used item than very simply no returns.

Lastly, being it is a raw coin the buyer couldve done any number of idiotic things before sending it to PCGS, even cleaning it himself and what guarantee does the seller have that the coin will be in the same condition as when he packed and shipped to the buyer? None what so ever, and after thinking about all the scenarios that i just did, i would keep my money and let the pieces fall where they may.

Funny enough I had a similar situation happen to me over a different product. I had a very nice vintage bottle of bourbon that i was trying to sell after ebay banned alcohol sales. Well it was always a touchy subject to send alcohol via mail and ZERO protection in the event anything happened to the bottle from the USPS insurance department (does that service cover anything?). So anyway me and a guy made a deal off ebay for the bottle, think it was $450 or somewhere close to that, which he paid via money order. Well I received the money, packaged the bottle in every type of cushioned packing material i could find, and sent it on its merry way. Cashed my money in and everything. About a week later I got an email from the buyer with some pictures of a crushed box and a broken bottle and him wanting a refund. My answer was very simply 'NO', he took the risk on me mailing a bottle, and the risk was all on him, not me, i didnt want the bottle, in fact it was already safely in my possession. I even asked his specific advice on shipping methods and insurance and hes the one who advised me to send it how I did and even let me know that it was frowned upon to ship alcohol like that and insurance wouldnt cover it. Anyway, long story short he was out of his money and bourbon, BUT, thats the risk you take when buying things online and not in person, you are subject to many variables beyond your control and if you make a conscious decision to buy something and it doesnt go the way you planned, well maybe you shouldnt have gambled!

Like the original purchaser of this coin, if he wanted a certified example so bad, well maybe he shouldve saved the rest of the money to buy an already graded example exactly how he liked it instead of trying to cut corners or be more coin savvy than he actually is.

Isnt that the normal advice around here: LEARN about your interested topics before purchasing and SAVE for the best example you can afford so as not to upgrade later, well in this case he shouldve bought already graded instead of trying to save money by cherry-picking.

Just my opinion on the matter

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I think this right here is 100% spot on.

 

Jesus, Joseph, an' Mary - a Detecto post I not only agree with but liked. Miracles never cease. Me thinks I should pop out an' buy a wee lottery ticket now. If I win I will share a meager portion with Detecto so he can hae lunch on my dime.

 

Yep... to quote Forest Gump:
"Detecto's posts are like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're going to get."

 

In the real world the answer would be simple. he took it out of the original holder and it is past the 14 days, no refund.

The problem is that eBay is involved here as well. Even though he is obviously not entitled to a refund he is within eBays 45 day complaint window and all he has to do is file a SNAD complaint and eBay will side with him and grant him his refund for the coin and shipping. It doesn't matter that it is past the 14 days, or that it ISN'T SNAD, ebay will most likely side with him. And you will probably still get the neg.

Frankly I'd like to tell him that even though it is past the return day, you will be generous and refund his money if he just returns the coin in the original unopened holder. But frankly since that wouldn't work, I'd agree to the refund, have him ship it back and refund the bid price, not the shipping either way. and then of course block him. Frankly no matter what you do you're probably going to get the neg.

That's just it, eBay WON'T stand behind a seller. That's why a buyer can get a refund from a seller who even has no returns as-is for their return policy. Just file a SNAD claim and get a refund. Return policies are meaningless.

 

Situations as this happen more frequently than you might think, using the EBAY venue. The fact is both the Buyer & Seller are at fault and so some form of compromise should be attempted. Follow the ethics and morales you would want to be offered to you, if the situation were turned around. Hope both of you can find some common ground.

 

There's no way an "obviously" cleaned coin gets bid up to $400.

Clearly, more then one person had higher expectations based on the information you provided and the information you DID NOT provide, obvious or not.

Personally, I think sellers should always honour refund requests... it's good for business and it's just good karma.

You can always relist the coin and maybe the next buyer won't care if it's been cleaned or not.

 

Here is something that I ran into at a show not all that long ago.

Young guy.. 25ish maybe.. was offering coins for sale at the show. He talked to me and told me that he buys what he thinks are steals/deals on ebay, brings them to the show on the weekend. The ones he can sell easy and make a few bucks on he sells and moves on.. the ones he can't move.. He returns to the sellers as not what was expected. Now, how does that make ya feel as a seller that there is at LEAST one person doing that. He told me he does pretty good at this little (he calls business, I call Thievery)

 

Its tough I admit. At first blush I was "heck no, the seller did not guarantee results from a TPG in the auction. Also, as long as the pictures were accurate it was up to the buyer to assess the condition of the coin on his own".

BUT, I believe the OP is a coin expert, maybe the buyer is not. So, I am not sure if the seller should have stated it appears the coin has an old cleaning in the auction listing or not.

Having said that, and considering the fact the OP is very concerned about a negative, as well as Ebay's aggressive buyer protection, I would lean towards refunding the money. One, since there appears to be fault on both sides, (not saying its not 99% on the buyers side), but still both sides might be slightly to blame, and two, if this buyer wishes to he could raise a lot of fuss with Ebay claiming article "not as described, I have proof from the TPG etc etc".

So, for a couple of reasons, not even mentioning Karma, I would refund the money. It hurts to recommend that, since I am one who believes in personal responsiblity, but it is the course I would follow.

Man, its tough. Its one of those situations you really WANT to say no, but have to swallow hard and say yes.

 

I would not refund the money.

Here's why:

You have a 14 day return policy in place.
The buyer received the coin and could examine it in hand.
If he senses a cleaning or other problems, or simply doesn't like it, then he should have sent it back for a return. No questions asked.
Simple as that.

Where do you draw the line?
What if it graded but was a lower grade then expected?
What about toned coins? A buyer can buy toned coins, send them in for grading, then get a return on any that get bagged for questionable color?

Ridiculous.
Buyers need to take on some responsibility.
They have plenty of time to get other opinions on the coin once they have it in hand.
If they are not experienced enough to see a cleaning on a coin in hand, then they shouldn't be buying $400 raw coins.

 

What's eBay policy on SNAD coins? I don't believe the coin is SNAD even though there is no mention of cleaning. I believe raw coin policy dictates that bidding is predicated on photos alone.

 

wow

 

For your other examples, I would say no absolutely. I never said I LIKED saying yes to refund the money, but given the circumstances stated I would.

Yeah, it sucks. I am glad I don't sell coins.

Regarding Ebay, I have heard horror stories about how they ruled a coin was not as described, so therefor the buyer could keep the coin but got an instant refund from paypal. That was the "extreme buyer protection" I talked about from Ebay. At least the seller would get the coin back if he refunds the money, and avoids the potential for such a situation.

 

Oh man, does this still happen? eek.

 

I would have to say yes. Terms of the auction are 14 days, doesn't matter why. I've given a few refunds out they can suck, but on the other hand I have sent a few coins back myself and as a buyer that is no fun too.

 

Agree with what Conder said - eBay will NOT stand behind you as a seller at all. They might SAY they will, if you speak to a real person...but that real person will do absolutely nothing to protect you as a seller. Then you'll call back, and eBay will pretend like you never called them in the first place and tell you "maybe you should be a better seller." I've had a few cases where I was obviously in the right, and the buyer was obviously in the wrong, and ebay basically told me there was nothing they would do and that I should improve my selling practices. (The incident in question in this case was where I had shipped an item the next day after it was paid for, and the USPS took 3 weeks to deliver the item, so the buyer gave me a low rating for "shipping speed.")

In any case, no matter what your return policy states, no matter what eBay "policy" states, if the buyer complains, eBay will TAKE the money back from you without asking. It's pretty much automatic. Your best bet, in this situation, is to do what you did - try to work it out with the buyer. If they disagree, you're stuck with the refund one way or another, and you'll have no control over the situation. All the tips provided here are wonderful...but in practice, eBay will always side with the buyer (unless they go Mel Gibson on their feedback - then they might remove it.)

Just my two cents.

 

ebay completed auction 1838 reeded green bid

 

Coins are a special class of product due to the numerous fraud schemes associated with them.

 

Pretty much "Buyer said it was SNAD, buyer wins. Period."

 

Nope, don't give him a refund. Let him Neg you, then appeal it referencing back to the original listing that says no refund. It's clear cut, he has no grounds.