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Should a significant mark in a prime focal area prevent a gem grade?
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<p>[QUOTE="Mark Feld, post: 905469, member: 11467"]Quote:</p><p> In many, if not most cases, the ANA standards to which you refer are general and ambiguous enough such that they do not allow one to distinguish one grade from the next. And that is not a complaint, as I don't think written standards are capable of doing that. </p><p>"Sorry, but I disagree. I find them quite clear."</p><p><br /></p><p>Doug, since you disagree with me and find the standards to be "quite clear", in so far as being able to distinguish one grade from another, please answer the following with respect to the differences in the ANA standards between MS65 and MS67 Morgan Dollars:</p><p><br /></p><p>Originally Posted by <b>ANA Standards, 5<p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: red"><font face="serif"><b><u>th</u></b></font></span></p><p>Edition, pg.286</b> </p><p> <i>MS-65 UNCIRCULATED No trace of wear; nearly as perfect as MS-67 except for a few additional minute bag marks or surface mars. Has full mint luster but may be unevenly toned. Any unusual striking traits must be described.</i></p><p> </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p> Originally Posted by <b>ANA Standards, 5<p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: red"><font face="serif"><b><u>th</u></b></font></span></p><p>Edition, pg286</b> </p><p> <i>MS-67 UNCIRCULATED Virtually flawless with very minor imperfections.</i></p><p><br /></p><p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: #000000"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: #000000"><br /></span></p><p><br /></p><p>1) Precisely how many additional minute bag marks or surface mars constitute "a few"?</p><p>2) Precisely how small or large is a "minute bag mark" or "surface mar"?</p><p>3) Precisely how different is "nearly"?</p><p>4) Precisely define "virtually flawless"</p><p>5) Precisely define "very minor imperfections".</p><p><br /></p><p>And those are two point differences between MS65 and MS67 examples. What about the even more subtle differences between MS65's and MS66's or MS66's and MS67's, which are one grade apart and not two?</p><p><br /></p><p>I repeat, that in many, if not most cases, the ANA standards to which you refer are general and ambiguous enough such that they do not allow one to distinguish one grade from the next. And that is not a complaint, as I don't think written standards are capable of doing that.</p><p><br /></p><p> I challenge you to illustrate otherwise, specifically enough so that people would be able to apply the information consistently and objectively, in order to arrive at one specific grade, and no other grade.</p><p><br /></p><p>I maintain that it can't be done in a written guide. That's because there are an infinite number of subtle differences between different coins. Those differences can't all be taken into account, distinguished and neatly fit into or included in a particular numerical grade classification. And because of the subjective nature of grading.</p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: #000000"><br /></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: #000000"><br /></span></p><p>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Mark Feld, post: 905469, member: 11467"]Quote: In many, if not most cases, the ANA standards to which you refer are general and ambiguous enough such that they do not allow one to distinguish one grade from the next. And that is not a complaint, as I don't think written standards are capable of doing that. "Sorry, but I disagree. I find them quite clear." Doug, since you disagree with me and find the standards to be "quite clear", in so far as being able to distinguish one grade from another, please answer the following with respect to the differences in the ANA standards between MS65 and MS67 Morgan Dollars: Originally Posted by [B]ANA Standards, 5[LEFT][COLOR=red][FONT=serif][B][U]th[/U][/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT] Edition, pg.286[/B] [I]MS-65 UNCIRCULATED No trace of wear; nearly as perfect as MS-67 except for a few additional minute bag marks or surface mars. Has full mint luster but may be unevenly toned. Any unusual striking traits must be described.[/I] Originally Posted by [B]ANA Standards, 5[LEFT][COLOR=red][FONT=serif][B][U]th[/U][/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT] Edition, pg286[/B] [I]MS-67 UNCIRCULATED Virtually flawless with very minor imperfections.[/I] [LEFT][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/LEFT] 1) Precisely how many additional minute bag marks or surface mars constitute "a few"? 2) Precisely how small or large is a "minute bag mark" or "surface mar"? 3) Precisely how different is "nearly"? 4) Precisely define "virtually flawless" 5) Precisely define "very minor imperfections". And those are two point differences between MS65 and MS67 examples. What about the even more subtle differences between MS65's and MS66's or MS66's and MS67's, which are one grade apart and not two? I repeat, that in many, if not most cases, the ANA standards to which you refer are general and ambiguous enough such that they do not allow one to distinguish one grade from the next. And that is not a complaint, as I don't think written standards are capable of doing that. I challenge you to illustrate otherwise, specifically enough so that people would be able to apply the information consistently and objectively, in order to arrive at one specific grade, and no other grade. I maintain that it can't be done in a written guide. That's because there are an infinite number of subtle differences between different coins. Those differences can't all be taken into account, distinguished and neatly fit into or included in a particular numerical grade classification. And because of the subjective nature of grading. [LEFT][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/LEFT][/QUOTE]
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Should a significant mark in a prime focal area prevent a gem grade?
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