Gray Sheets ALWAYS has PCGS, ICG and NGC on the top with all three exceeding 80% (whatever that means). Matter of fact, you will find ICG was at the top MANY times over, beating PCGS and NGC. I can't figure out what these percentages actually mean for ANACS's percentages always seem to hover in the mid 50's. I always felt that ICG does a great job grading coins at MS68 levels and below...that is for circulated coins. I think they are too "loose" on modern proofs as a number of their proof coins that realize 69 and 70 grades seem to be a higher occurance than NGC and PCGS. They graded the famous 1974 Aluminum cent as a AU58. PCGS broke it out and gave the coin a MS62. When the press questioned ICG, they repeated that they stood by their grade. So who is right and who is wrong?? Hence, that is the reason why I only buy coins "sight unseen" from these four grading companies, the rest are not worth my time.
Not that I will confrim nor deny this has occured... I seem to recall that any contact with buyers of SGS coins were kindly invited to participate in some of these great discussion threads here at Coin Talk...some of those threads that deal with "graded" coins from the likes of SGS. Something like, "We are having a great discussion about SGS graded coins...come visit us at www.cointalk.org and join the fun!" Education, pass the word!
I would bet ICG....I wonder if they took into account that the aluminm cent was lighter than a normal cent and that the coin would show maybe some die wear and not circulated wear.... Speedy
but Speedy, the coin looks circulated from the photos! PCGS was practicing the extreme in market grading, the same as what they did with the 1933 Double Eagle; that coin is a MS 62 at BEST. Then again, when there is only 1 of a coin, does the grade really matter? Not really, it will sell for what it sells for regardless of what anyone calls it.
Well I haven't seen too good of photos of the coin so I guess I was just talking off the top of my head As for the 1933 $20 gold piece.......as you know you have to grade each date and mintmark for that year....and each date has a strike and such unlike the year before....so I really don't know how they can say it grades MS62 without looking at more than just 1 coin from that date and mint. As with the case of the 1933 and such they really just have to guess that the strike and luster and everything was as the year before and go from there. As for Market grading....they might as well use it...the whole coin world does anyhow! Speedy
Collector Safe slabs First off, where can one get said Collector Safe slabs for 30 cents each? Secondly, are there any places one can search for slabs if one wants to start an honest coin grading service? Thanks. Regards, Kevin
30 cents is pretty cheap. You may get some "fishing tackle" plastic cases with gold tape for this price (like SGS slabs) if you buy in bulk, but if I was going to start my own grading company, I would at least start with these: http://www.amosadvantage.com/scottonline/Premier_cwch.asp http://www.amosadvantage.com/scottonline/coinholders.asp I am sure that the top TPG's have their slabs made for them...specifically to their specs. The key is to sonically seal them so that the only way they can be opened is by literally destroying the slab. After all, people buy slabs for not just the grader's opinion and authentication, but presentation, preservation, and protection of the coin. Know any plastic molders? Don't forget about the inserts. If I were to use an insert, I would use Intercept Shield inserts on all of my coins...but that is just me. Good luck...
Actually, you don't even need tape at all. All you need is access to a sonic sealer. Call around town and find out who has one and ask if you can rent it for a while while you slab your coins. You can also get gold laser printer labels as well, pretty much everything to make your own slabs is freely available if you know how to put it together. You can get a barcode scanner and print your own barcodes, make up a database, etc. and you are set. SGS' first 'slabs' were cardboard 2x2's with gold labels on it.
Sonic Sealer Yes, I have checked out the Coin World Premier holders (as well as the slightly cheaper "Standard" holders), which are priced fairly reasonably I must say. I have already designed the logo and labels, created a website, forms and databases, as well as have a barcode program (I'm using Code 39), and the only thing I really needed was the slabs themselves. I didn't know that those Collector Safe holders were "fishing tackle" holders, which I guess means they merely have a clasp holder to keep them shut - hence the need for the garish gold stickers on the SGS "slab" holders. I thought they were a sort of lower-end ANACS holder. I actually did not know about the sonic-saeling aspect - I assumed that if I had some compressed air (or an air-mattress style mini-compressor with a small nozzle) that I could effectively keep the coins in a dust free state the moment before I sealed them in the case, and that such would be enough for more-than-adequate protection - at least to the level that an air-tite or even intercept shield case would have. Though I haven't yet gotten the website up on to the domain name I purchased (www.cgscoin.com), I do have it up at a free hoster temporarily (to test it out more or less) at www.cgscoin.tk. Thanks so much so far. Kevin
Can I ask you a question????? How in the word are you getting into the "slabbing" business when you don't what your competition is doing or it fact offering? Sonically sealed slabs have been around for awhile. This is NOT new! Where have you been? Here are links from some of your competitors: http://www.pcgs.com/behind.chtml http://www.ngccoin.com/coingrading/encapsulating3.asp ...Or are you just starting another grading company to sell MS70 or PR70 coins similar to how Star Grading Service (SGS) and Aboncom markets their coin inventory?? I hope not. We need another slabbing company selling on eBay like a hole in the head. Please explain yourself...
Explanation I can tell you 100 percent that I would never ever slab coins to sell myself (which is something those connected with PCGS even do) nor to overgrade coins. However, I'm trying to offer an accurate grading service to those average collectors (like I was as a kid or a teenager, and like many of the low-income residents of rural Illinois where I currently reside) who don't have many coins that would benefit in any way from paying $20 or $30 for a grade. I had looked up the sonic sealing portion of the NGC and PCGS websites (and ICG, which is actually rated higher on Greysheet than either of the two), but did not know how much greater a level of protection it really offered - especially considering I am trying to start this service from the ground up and keep the prices down. I want a kid with an MS-63 or 64 common date Morgan (I don't know like an 1896) to be able to submit it and get the same level of accuracy as the more expensive services for a price that makes it actually worth their while. That's all. I am not an SGS or several other obviously fake labels you see on ebay. I have sold on ebay, but never in slabbed form (kwhitegocubs is ebay name). In any case, thanks again - I know the coins portion of grading, but I'm trying to get a hang on the details of the actual slab itself. Regards, Kevin
OK...so let me ask you this. Why should I submit my coins for grading and authentication to CGS?? There are a number of services that will do it and many have been around for awhile. Here are some of their posted fees: For US Coins, non-gold. I picked two services (turnaround days) from their web sites PCGS 45 days, $18 PCGS 15 days Service, $30 NGC 24 days, $16 NGC 5 days, $21 ICG 21 days, $15 ICG 15 days, $30 ANACS 21 days, $12 ANACS 5 days, $25 SEGS 15 to 20 days, $20 PCI 5 days, $15 PCI 10 days, $10 ASA Accugrade, $5.50 to $20 per coin, depending on volume. PLUS S&H to and from these TPGS... Quality and service are a perception. I have never spoke to one business owner that admits they do crappy service and quality. I always believed there is a balance between quality, service and price...so, I am the buyer sitting in my office with a stack full of coins ready for submissions. Sell me!
Hmm...marketing Well, I had thought about this beforehand - every new company or service in any field needs a selling point. My price selling points are these: $8.00 per coin for all coins, 5-day turnaround for all coins, discount of 80 percent of total price for all submissions including 5 or more coins (i.e. - 5 coins would be 32 dollars). Additionally, we will send a detailed, typed analysis of why each coin was graded the way it was - with remarks including specific mention of what scratches or what weak strike characteristics made a coin an MS-63 instead of a 65, etc... or why it was given an F-15 instead of VF-20 (perhaps, on a Braided Hair large cent, where the hair was worn at what specific vantage point, etc...). Furthermore, if a consumer is not pleased, they can submit it for regrade for free - only paying for return shipping and handling (which would be $1.50 or so). Consumers choose whether or not to insure the coins, and the only charge would be the exact post office charge for shipping insurance (i.e. $1.35 extra). Those are the unique selling points CGS offers. On a side note, I don't mean to sound so detached, as if I am just trying to sell this business to all of you on the board. Instead, it is more that I was hoping to enlist your aid and years of numismatic experience in helping me make this idea as good as possible. Thanks, Midas, especially - the best questions are the toughest and most critical. Kevin
I think there are a lot of grading companies already. The real problem might start if for some reason you got 1000 coins in a week. It would be hard to offer that level of service then. Quite interestingly this week in Coin World ICG is offering 4 or 5 day economy service and PCGS has an advertisement for graders offering well into 6 figures for top experience and even offering $60,000.00 per year for an "Apprentice Grader." Best Wishes, John
HOLY COW----that is a powerful lot of money. I don't see how they can offer that---if I wanted that much money and was a good grader I would be trying to get in....but with that much money I would have to pay taxes....and I'm happy knowing that good 'ol uncle sam doesn't have anything on me Speedy
