Seriously PCGS

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Mainebill, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Guess I'm a real sucker...I just looked :facepalm:
     
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  3. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    This is true, but was only intended to be a means of determining the value of the coin and not necessarily the grade as the scale represents now. The idea was that a MS-60 was worth 60x what a PO-1 was worth. I'd say for the most part it worked up to about XF-45 or so. Surely grade and value go hand in hand, but it was abandoned as a pricing scale because it simply doesn't work with higher grades. The prices for the single finest is generally worth multiples of the same coin at a grade one point lower.
     
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  4. kaosleeroy108

    kaosleeroy108 The Mahayana Tea Shop & hobby center

    Shooting say secure plus and pay the 5$ I figure it should just be automatically included in the grading package cause of security reasons
     
  5. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    The 58-s. I would if anything soak in acetone. It's a very tough date coin in any condition in f-12 as I grade it it's a $400 coin. I talked about possibly dipping the slq as they don't like the light golden toning. This was not bought for any color premium. Also I'd say at least 50% of coins that don't go straight the first time usually do the second. As to the copper it's been graded straight at both tpgs already. For the money I'm in it. Was well worth trying for A straight non details grade as it'd add over $1k in value I've had many coins in questionable detail slabs come back straight I had a half dime ex Eric Newman. Got a cleaning details when ngc graded it I couldn't find a hairline anywhere tho it was dipped and retoned years ago. Cracked and resubmitted came back ms 62. I also have seen many coins that should be in details slabs graded straight. In my opinion the tpgs are right about 85% of the time
     
  6. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    I see a problem that can only be cured by sending to me, to accompany my lonely unslabbitated '97:D
     
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  7. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    If the black is corrosion, acetone will not help. There are better chemicals that remove "black." If it is a "build-up," the acetone will help; however, if the surface under the ED has become etched, the coin will look cleaned and ugly. Sell it and give the problems to the buyer.

    Yes, and if it were an XF it would be $1000+! Unfortunately, IMO it will always be a "details" coin. IMO, that is the only reason it got graded as a Fine.

    If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, my opinion of PGCS and NGC has been shaken. I've sent a copy of your statement (with no indication who/where I saw it) to some friends I will be seeing soon. I'm not stupid. I know things that go on at TPGS's; however, the 50% you claim for second submissions is about 45% UNACCEPTIBLE for any reason at any business! This problem needs to be fixed - FAST!
     
  8. iontyre

    iontyre Active Member

    Sigh. Oh for the good old days back when I started collecting in the 70's and there were no TPG's. Coins were coins, if you liked the look of one you added it to your collection. Fill those holes! I can't see why if you wanted one of those coins the original poster sent to the TPG and you were satisfied with the look of the coin you couldn't be satisfied to have it in your collection. Cleaned? Sure maybe, but does that mean it is no longer a coin? Unfortunate, and maybe not as nice looking as some uncleaned coins, but the 'Details' thing seems to imply the coin is now nothing but trash. The two cent coin in my avatar is Details - questionable color from PGCS, yet it is a wonderfully detailed example of the type, NOT TRASH!
     
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  9. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    I completely agree except for when it's time to sell. Unfortunately we can't just judge a coin based on their merits anymore. I too long for the good old days even though I didn't start collecting until about the 80s.
     
    Insider likes this.
  10. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Note: I BUY CLEANED COINS. They are still collectible. However, because of my experience, hard-knocks, grading seminars, research, study, stereo scope, etc. ; I like to believe with 99% certainty that I can detect a coin that is not original or has problems. I want every collector to reach this level. Some of the members here have demonstrated that they have. Others are spinning wheels at the moment but I'm hopeful they are learning.

    I want every collector to see EVERY plus and minus characteristic on a coin they are buying so they can make an INFORMED decision about the purchase with NO SURPRISES. Education is the solution. Join the ANA and take some courses. It's money well spent.
     
  11. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I'll be honest: every single one of the coins that you posted which didn't grade has problems. I wouldn't have sent any of them in, and I am not surprised that they were bagged. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is the truth as I interpret your pictures.
     
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  12. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That estimate is far to high. Some will straight grade on a second trip or switching TPGs to a different standard that were boarder line details to begin with but the percentage is probably more like 10-15% max. Just look through Heritage or Ebay or dealer sites for details coins and the majority of them have no chance of ever straight grading without a big shift in grading to a system that is something along the lines of everything grades it just gets net graded.

    Questionable color is by far the best details grade someone can receive as long as it is not something outrageous. Some people will just ignore it being called questionable color as those boarder line ones are really a judgement call.
     
  13. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    I could be wrong here, but I believe his "45%" was measured against the OP's "50%" claim, meaning not 45% out of 100 acceptable but 5%.
     
  14. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I may have misinterpreted it and you very well could be correct. I read it as it was 45% higher then an acceptable level of 5%. Hopefully he will clarify
     
  15. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    The OP stated that he has a 50% rate for changes to coins on a second submission. I say BS. IMO less than 5% of the coins resubmitted to the same grading service get an upgrade or go from details to straight. The percentage may be as high as 15% between grading services. IMO that is unacceptable as from my experience all four major TPGS's services use similar standards (which do not exist).
     
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  16. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Ah, brooks was right then. I read it a different way, my mistake. But yes I agree with you.
     
  17. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Too be perfectly honest ...I didn't under stand either of you :happy: as I am mathematically challenged.:blackeye:
     
  18. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Yeah... that's what I thought you were saying and I in turn said, or thought I did or, well, tried to anyway. ;)
     
  19. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    That would be a risky move. The grading companies could piss off the customer and never get another submission from them.

    My guess is they don't know what they're doing lol
     
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  20. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    image.jpeg image.jpeg Case in point. Was bought as ngc unc details reverse cleaned. Cracked and resubmitted came back ngc ms 65. Did I agree with either grade no. In my opinion it's a market acceptable clean grading ms 63 maybe 64 on a good day. Am I complaining. No I made $800 it's all a game the tpgs play especially pcgs. I know going in they'll napalm 20% every time to ensure future submissions. Can I grade coins and pick what will get in a holder. Yes. I've done a lot of it. Their favorite with me is questionable color. Getting a toned coin in a holder is very hard especially for the little guys
     
  21. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    If you are saying they intentionally misgrade 20% of the submissions with the intention of getting them to be resubmitted then I'm going to sell every PCGS coin I own (and not buy another one again). This would be one of the fastest ways to lose all credibility. If your allegation is true then we all better get rid of our PCGS coins asap. They will be worth less than ANACS or ICG.

    As previously mentioned, I don't believe they intentionally do that. Firstly for the aforementioned reason of credibility. Second, they risk upsetting the customer/dealer and losing all future business from them and anyone else who they tell their horror story to.

    I think the problem is incompetency.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016
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