Sept. Sev. draped and cuirassed

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by maridvnvm, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Rev is definitely a match and I am not sure but there seem to be some shared features on obverse too. The big T in Rev is one of many easy to see clues. V to C “correction” does explain better the spacing.

    As I haven’t been looking for die matches for long, I do find it surprising how common die matches are. I guess a reminder that a lot of coins come from each die.

    I am amazed by the level of misspelled, corrected, incorrect Latin and rushed legends there are from this mint(s) and this time period combined with obverse and reverse designs that to me are well executed. Too bad cell phones hadn’t been invented yet, it would be fun to see a video of mint operations in AD 194.

    I am also interested in points of view of the eastern mints and the early Severus years - I think latest evidence points to
    - Emesa as pure conjecture unsupported by evidence
    - likely that Antioch and Alexandria were taken over and minted coins for Septimius (supported by shared dies between Niger and Severus, and other evidence)

    Where do “formerly Emesa” coins come from - if we consider the most recent evidence?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  3. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Curtis Clay has checked his cast collection for dies and has been unable to find this obverse die amongst them, So it looks like a previously unknown die. He also thinks it likely to be Draped and not Draped and cuirassed.
     
    Sulla80 likes this.
  4. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    I've convinced myself that the obverses on the C over V "INVICTO IMP" are also a die match... @dougsmit 's coin overlayed on mine.
    Severus Alignment.gif
     
  5. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    My example with trophy:
    image(1).jpg
     
  6. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    That is a nice, Rome mint example.

    A similar trophy type but with a single captive (sword beneath, shield in front) from the IMP II - "Laodicea" mint.

    [​IMG]

    which also occurs from the IMP VIII issue

    [​IMG]
    and with no shield
    [​IMG]

    IMP VIII also has the standard trophy type.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    I'll just plop my "Emesa" in here in the hopes that our Severan experts go off on another riff. They're fun to watch. :)

    (Note the two dots in the obverse legend. Can you do that one? ;))
    Screen Shot 2019-04-12 at 9.06.38 PM.jpg
     
  8. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    It has a third dot in the L of CAE L. I don't appear to have an example from that overse die nor any others with a double dot there. Now another hunt begins......

    We believe that this reverse legend, naming Severus in the reverse is near the start of the issues from this mint.

    I have a few of these VICTOR SEVER AVG coins for a variety of reasons.

    Same reverse legend spacing as yours.... similar bust style too.
    [​IMG]

    VICTOR S-EV-ER AVG
    [​IMG]

    VICTOR SEV-E-R AVG
    [​IMG]

    This next one has the same spacing as yours and my first but I bought it because it is an obverse die link toseveral other coins and might help with piecing some chronology together some day.

    [​IMG]

    My last one of the type is my error coin. It mixes two reverses

    FELICITAS TEMPOR, grain ear between crossed cornucopiae
    VICTOR SEVER AVG, Victory walking left, holding wreath in right hand, palm in left.

    The reverse of this coin has been struck with two diffrerent reverse dies during the strking process. The blank was originally struck, not removed and then struck again with a different reverse die.

    [​IMG]

    I have another type which appears to be a bit scarcer than those above.

    Obv:– IMP CAE L SEP SEV PERT AVG COS I, Laureate head right
    Rev:– VICTOR SEVER AVG, Victory walking right, holding trophy in both hands
    Minted in Emesa, A.D. 194 - 195
    References:– BMCRE -, RIC -, RSC -

    2.80g, 18.22mm, 180o

    [​IMG]

    Preceding these are a peculiar set of coins naming Niger (in the title IVST).

    Reverse die matches for the next two
    AVG - IVST AVS (sic)
    [​IMG]
    AVG II C - IVST AVS (sic)
    [​IMG]

    And reverse die matches for the next two
    AVG - IVST AVG
    [​IMG]
    AVG II CO - IVST AVG
    [​IMG]

    AVG - IVST AVG II COS
    [​IMG]

    AVG II C - IVST AVG
    [​IMG]

    The type lasts into the COS I issue.
    COS I - IVST AVG
    [​IMG]

    Now over to @dougsmit to trump all these with a highly enviable IVST seated Victory of Domna......
     
  9. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    So what is the purpose of the Dot? On the example iluustrated by @Severus Alexander the two dots appear between SE and V where the legend breaks across the head. This seems to make sense... perhaps as markers for the engraver. The following example seems to challenge this though with a single dot between SE and V again but with the legend breaking at P-ERT.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Sure, which one do you want to see? My two are die duplicates. The BN in Paris has one that was recorded by Cohen as #250 but they have not posted a photo of theirs last I checked so I am not certain their is a die duplicate of mine or which coin is 'better'.
    rk5140fd1946.jpg rk5145fd3443.jpg

    Since we are 'fun to watch' There is always this one:
    rd0055bb3155.jpg

    I'm not sure how we got on the Victor series leaving the Invicto group. I like the early ones with INVICTO IMP TROPAEA but do not have the matching Pescennius.
    rg0590bb1561.jpg rg0900b00698lg.JPG
     
  11. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Here's a double die match to Doug's AVG.

    [​IMG]
    An obverse die match but with INVICTO IMP TROPAEA II
    [​IMG]
    an AVG II CO - TROPAEA
    [​IMG]
    a COS II - TROPA
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    [​IMG]

    Thanks, guys! :happy:

    Definitely want one of those IVST AVG coins now, and will dream of the corresponding Niger. I didn't realize this was an explicit reference to him. (It seems neither did the mintmaster under Severus, at least at first... :banghead:)

    The dot between the L and S (which I see on a number of your examples too) also calls into question the idea these are markers for a legend break, besides the Mars that you showed.

    I note a dot at 12 o'clock on the reverse of my coin, outside the border dots. Is this something that occurs with some discernible regularity, or just a stray engraving mistake/die flaw? (I'm assuming the post under Victory is just a die flaw.)
     
  13. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    If I can ask the information about this Septimius denarius. Is there this type of Septimius denarius where the legend on obverse begins with IMP AEL (without C), or it is denarius with a error. What is the value of such denarius compared to one without error? Thanks.
    image(3).jpg
     
    Johndakerftw and Bing like this.
  14. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    C missing in error. A neat one.
     
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