Sept Sev Alexandrian legionary (upgrade)

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by maridvnvm, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    This one arrived today. These are quite scarce and even though I already have an example from the same die pair I couldn't resist this one when it came up at a european auction house last week. The auction house somehow failed to identify it as Alexandrian and perhaps this is why there were no other bids.

    Septimius Severus denarius


    Obv:– IMP CAE L S-EP SEV PERT AVG, Laureate head right
    Rev:– LEG III IT AVG, TR P COS in exergue, Legionary eagle between two standards
    Minted in Alexandria. A.D. 194
    Reference:-- Cohen -. RIC -. BMCRE -.

    [​IMG]

    Here is my previous example:-
    [​IMG]

    I have a few other obverse die links with this probably being the nicest.

    Obv:– IMP CAE L SEP SEV PERT AVG, Laureate head right
    Rev:– FIDEI LEG TR P COS II, Fides standing left holding Victory and standard
    Minted in Alexandria. A.D. 194
    Ref:– RIC 349

    2.25g. 18.71mm. 0o
    [​IMG]
    Martin
     
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Lucky for you. I need to find one of these legionary types. Your Fides example is also quite nice. Congrats.
     
  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Very nice! Congrats on the upgrade :).
     
  5. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    A lovely addition, Martin.
     
  6. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Great addition and quite the upgrade!
     
  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    That coin is (IMHO) more than quite scarce with the reverse ending in AVG. The common variety Alexandria legionary ends in AVI and that one is at least scarce depending on how you count rarity on these things. I have no idea how many exist. While your new one is a definite upgrade overall, the old one is more clear on the AVG so is nothing to discard lightly. I have only one AVG. It is the Bickford-Smith specimen from the CNG sale and, therefore, special to me. He was my friend and introduced me to much of what I know about Alexandrian Septimius.
    rf0190bb1797.jpg
    Below are the more common AVI reverse coins.
    rf0170bb1123.jpg rf0180bb1346.jpg
    Many coins of this issue have some legend loss but it is safe to assume AVI unless you have a die match to a known AVG coin.
    rf0160bb0848.jpg

    No discussion of this coin should omit pointing out the fact that many experts were slow to pick up on the existence of the Alexandria mint legionaries. Seaby's Roman Silver Coins Volume III, Septimius #262 illustrates the coin from the Arnold collection (Seaby 1984) which is clearly Alexandrian but copies the authors of RIC (Septimius #7) and BMC (Septimius #10) footnotes saying Cohen was in error listing the coin separately from the usual Rome mint LEG III ITAL coins. Cohen took the trouble to read the legends and seems to have had a coin that lost the final I. Experts still need to read clear coins and avoid assuming letters their coins lack.

    http://bpmurphy.ancients.info/severan/ssalex3.htm
    Barry Murphy had a coin SEV-341 that was clearly LEG IIII IT AVG but the fourth I was an error. I have no idea what happened to that coin. As a fan of the legionary series and of Alexandria, I would have been glad to give it a home but it was an error rather than a evidence of a legion that did not exist.

    Thanks for sharing your new coin. It is a winner!
     
    Ryro, Alegandron, Sulla80 and 5 others like this.
  8. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Great example!
     
  9. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Nice catch! My only Sep Sev Alexandrian is a relatively common one, but I'm glad to have it:

    5251.jpg
     
  10. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Hi @maridvnvm, an interesting coin and nice upgrade. I am just discovering this thread six months late and found it useful trying to figure out this coin, purchased in a lot of 10 coins recently.
    Sept Sev 193.jpg
    Septimius Severus (193-211 AD)
    AR Denarius (17 mm, 3.00 g)
    Mint: Alexandria, Rome, 193-194.
    Obv: IMP CAE L SEP SEV PAERT AVG, laureate head right.
    Rev: FIDEI LEG TR P COS, Fides standing left, holding Victory and vexillum
    Ref: RIC 1 and 349; RSC 146

    The "floor mop" in fides' left hand on the reverse took me a while to recognize as a "vexillum" or "standard":
    [​IMG]

    I find the portrait style on this one issue a bit unusual - Pescennius Niger-like? I read in one auction that : "after Septimius' victory against Pescennius Niger in the battle of Nikaia, the prefect of Egypt switched sides and started issuing coins in the name of the apparent winner, assuring him the fidelity of the Egyptian troops"

    Is this coin correctly dated to 193-4? not sure if this might meet the requirements of @dougsmit 's birthday post:
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  11. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I believe yours to be a Rome mint example. Alexandria always ends COS II on the reverse for this type.
     
    Severus Alexander and Sulla80 like this.
  12. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    Septimus Severus Denarius Alexandria Mint 3.06 grms Bicford Smith 3 ssd7.JPG
     
  13. Okidoki

    Okidoki Well-Known Member

    well done Martin
     
  14. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    While I agree, I avoid using the 'always' word in the hope that the exception will turn up.

    Three from Alexandria:
    rf0300bb1651.jpg rf0310bb1792.jpg rf0311bb2624.jpg
    Three from Rome:
    ri3990bb1349.jpg ri4000bb1015.jpg ri4010bb0561.jpg
     
  15. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Should we mention that the Alexandria mint used the same obverse legend Rome used but Rome only used it in 193 AD while Alexandria most likely did not switch over to striking for Septimius until after New Years? All this has been known for years but there are still too many people that believe all branch mints followed the Roman rules.

    I am embarrassed that I have lost the reference to the first report separating out the Alexandria denarii about 90 years ago. Does anyone have the reference or, better, the paper (in French?)? Looking at the style compared to the tetradrachms, the ID seems obvious.
    pa1050fd3421.jpg
     
  16. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Are you saying "IMP CAE L SEP SEV PAERT AVG" was only used in 193 in Rome?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  17. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Yes, That is traditional wisdom attribution but it is PERT for Pertinax. PART came later after the Parthan wars. In 194 they started the legends with IMP date at Rome. AE coins have CAES for CAE. There are early 'Emesa' using the same legend which may or may not be 193 since there are a few coins that have that legend and IICOS on the reverse. Remember I hate using words like only, always and never. Generally, regularly etc. are safer but I don't want to imply that there are any later uses of the first legend from Rome.

    I love this first legend 'Emesa' with TRP COS and IICOS both on the same reverse. Sometimes traditional wisdom fails us.
    rg0610bb2377.jpg
     
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