Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Sensible Recycling? Byzantine Overstrikes
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Valentinian, post: 3098186, member: 44316"][USER=87659]@Caesar_Augustus[/USER] , that is a wonderful first thread! I hope you don't think you must wait a year before you start another thread!</p><p><br /></p><p>Sometimes it can be hard to identify the over- and undertypes of a garbled Byzantine coin. But it is fun. I will walk you through hours of effort to decipher a coin that few people would care about unless they owned it. If you want to play this game, here is one useful fact: Early Byzantine coins almost always have 6:00 die axis, so you can use that fact to flip them over and look for the other side in its correct orientation.</p><p><br /></p><p>It helps a lot to have a large number of photos of Byzantine coins of the era, such as the Dumbarton Oaks catalogs, or Hahn's MIB series, so you can search for matching types.</p><p><br /></p><p>Here is an overstruck Byzantine coin in one orientation: two figures opposite a large M. </p><p>[ATTACH=full]783522[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>In this orientation you can see on the obverse, slightly to the right of center, a figure holding a cross on globe (globus cruciger) and a cross to his upper right. I don't see the second figure. On the reverse, we see a thin large M wth an I to the right and a clear ANNO down the left, E officina below the middle point of the M, with a "C" below the left leg of the M and bigger letters(?). The other mints did not have 5 officina, so officina E puts it at Constantinople, as does the "C" from "CON".</p><p><br /></p><p>Now the overtype (first photo) is likely to be Heraclius and son, which is commonly overstruck on earlier coins. That cross to the upper right of the figure on the first obverse orientation and the line of tiny letters just to its left tell us the coin was struck badly off center to the right. The son is off the flan at 3:00--that cross in the upper right should be <b>between</b> Heraclius and his son. Look to the left of Heraclius to see a curve of tiny letters (common on coins of Heraclius) which should be at the edge.</p><p><br /></p><p>This is not the exact overtype, but it gives you the idea.</p><p><font size="5">[ATTACH=full]783514[/ATTACH] </font></p><p><font size="5">Heraclius at Constantinople</font></p><p><font size="5">Sear 810. Sear 809 has a globus cruciger on the left, whereas this one has a long cross. </font></p><p><br /></p><p>Let's try the other side. Remember to use the 6:00 die-axis trick.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]783523[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><font size="5">In this orientation we can see a standing figure with a halo on the right and a + to the upper left of the head, as is common between two standing figures. Do you see his companion to his left? Neither do I. </font></p><p><font size="5"><br /></font></p><p><font size="5">Use the die-axis flip trick and look at the reverse. Now we can see a large uncial </font><font size="6">m</font><font size="5">, but not with the sharp corners of an M, rather the rounded top on an</font> <font size="6">m,</font><font size="5"> with ANNO down the left and "KY" to the right of the "O". The rounded </font><font size="6">m</font><font size="5"> narrows it down a lot. "KY" makes it Kyzicus, and under Phocas he has a type for Cyzicus (Kyzicus) with an obverse and reverse like that where the mint mark continues KYZB where the B is higher in the line. That checks. Dumbarton Oaks Phocas 69 (Sear 664) fits the undertype.</font></p><p><br /></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5">I happen to have an example of Sear 664:</font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5"><br /></font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5">[ATTACH=full]783516[/ATTACH] </font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5">The undertype (I think). It has minor differences, such as the position of the officina "B" which is higher on the DO specimen.</font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5">Phocas (602-610)</font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5">Phocas and Leontia</font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5">Sear 664, DO 69. </font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5"><br /></font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5">I see more parts I can't explain, such as what looks like large letters below the M and to the right of the C in the first orientation. I would not rule out the possibility it is a triple strike. </font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5"><br /></font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5">If you made it this far you have the makings of a Byzantine coin collector! </font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5"><br /></font></font></p><p><font size="5"><font size="5"></font></font>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Valentinian, post: 3098186, member: 44316"][USER=87659]@Caesar_Augustus[/USER] , that is a wonderful first thread! I hope you don't think you must wait a year before you start another thread! Sometimes it can be hard to identify the over- and undertypes of a garbled Byzantine coin. But it is fun. I will walk you through hours of effort to decipher a coin that few people would care about unless they owned it. If you want to play this game, here is one useful fact: Early Byzantine coins almost always have 6:00 die axis, so you can use that fact to flip them over and look for the other side in its correct orientation. It helps a lot to have a large number of photos of Byzantine coins of the era, such as the Dumbarton Oaks catalogs, or Hahn's MIB series, so you can search for matching types. Here is an overstruck Byzantine coin in one orientation: two figures opposite a large M. [ATTACH=full]783522[/ATTACH] In this orientation you can see on the obverse, slightly to the right of center, a figure holding a cross on globe (globus cruciger) and a cross to his upper right. I don't see the second figure. On the reverse, we see a thin large M wth an I to the right and a clear ANNO down the left, E officina below the middle point of the M, with a "C" below the left leg of the M and bigger letters(?). The other mints did not have 5 officina, so officina E puts it at Constantinople, as does the "C" from "CON". Now the overtype (first photo) is likely to be Heraclius and son, which is commonly overstruck on earlier coins. That cross to the upper right of the figure on the first obverse orientation and the line of tiny letters just to its left tell us the coin was struck badly off center to the right. The son is off the flan at 3:00--that cross in the upper right should be [B]between[/B] Heraclius and his son. Look to the left of Heraclius to see a curve of tiny letters (common on coins of Heraclius) which should be at the edge. This is not the exact overtype, but it gives you the idea. [SIZE=5][ATTACH=full]783514[/ATTACH] Heraclius at Constantinople Sear 810. Sear 809 has a globus cruciger on the left, whereas this one has a long cross. [/SIZE] Let's try the other side. Remember to use the 6:00 die-axis trick. [ATTACH=full]783523[/ATTACH] [SIZE=5]In this orientation we can see a standing figure with a halo on the right and a + to the upper left of the head, as is common between two standing figures. Do you see his companion to his left? Neither do I. Use the die-axis flip trick and look at the reverse. Now we can see a large uncial [/SIZE][SIZE=6]m[/SIZE][SIZE=5], but not with the sharp corners of an M, rather the rounded top on an[/SIZE] [SIZE=6]m,[/SIZE][SIZE=5] with ANNO down the left and "KY" to the right of the "O". The rounded [/SIZE][SIZE=6]m[/SIZE][SIZE=5] narrows it down a lot. "KY" makes it Kyzicus, and under Phocas he has a type for Cyzicus (Kyzicus) with an obverse and reverse like that where the mint mark continues KYZB where the B is higher in the line. That checks. Dumbarton Oaks Phocas 69 (Sear 664) fits the undertype.[/SIZE] [SIZE=5][SIZE=5]I happen to have an example of Sear 664: [ATTACH=full]783516[/ATTACH] The undertype (I think). It has minor differences, such as the position of the officina "B" which is higher on the DO specimen. Phocas (602-610) Phocas and Leontia Sear 664, DO 69. I see more parts I can't explain, such as what looks like large letters below the M and to the right of the C in the first orientation. I would not rule out the possibility it is a triple strike. If you made it this far you have the makings of a Byzantine coin collector! [/SIZE][/SIZE][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Sensible Recycling? Byzantine Overstrikes
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...