Seleucid Kingdom....What's going on Here?!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by 1934 Wreath Crown, May 5, 2020.

  1. 1934 Wreath Crown

    1934 Wreath Crown Well-Known Member

    This is clearly the same coin. The first set of pictures in a slab and the second after it has been released.....but after release has it been cleaned or cloned?

    Slabbed

    Seleucid AR Stater Obv.jpg

    Seleucid AR Stater Rev.jpg

    Released

    Seleucid AR Stater.jpg

    Seleucid AR Stater Reverse.jpg
    If it has indeed been cleaned, shouldn't this be mentioned in the description by the auction house or is this level of cleaning acceptable and standard practice?
     
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  3. David@PCC

    David@PCC allcoinage.com

    Looks cleaned, I would have done the same.
     
  4. Roerbakmix

    Roerbakmix Well-Known Member

    Cleaning of ancients is not frowned upon and basically all ancients coins have undergone some kind of cleaning / restoration.

    This specific deposit looks like horn silver, which can relatively easily be removed chemically.
     
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  5. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    If we start with the theory that all ancient coins have been cleaned to some degree, we do not need to be concerned with how many times but with how the cleaning made the coin better or worse. The slabbed photo shows terrible surfaces. The small photo may just look better than the first because the small size hides the 'problems'. I see nothing to disclose unless the photo was taken before even more cleaning. Sometimes we are not dealing with improving a coin as much as we are making it awful in a different way.
     
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  6. arnoldoe

    arnoldoe Well-Known Member

    It was cleaned, but before it was slabbed.. I think the only difference between the two photos is the lighting
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  7. AngelDeath

    AngelDeath Well-Known Member

    Elephant Ancients are the coolest of the cool I see nothing wrong with yours.
     
    spirityoda and 1934 Wreath Crown like this.
  8. 1934 Wreath Crown

    1934 Wreath Crown Well-Known Member

    Wish it was mine;)

    I don't think I can justify the cost:(
     
  9. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky

    I like the elephant.:)
     
  10. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    Cleaning like this is quite common. Your Akragas was also cleaned by Harlan Berk after the Lanz sale when it sold in 2012. As long as the cleaning is done well and carefully, it isn't a problem.
     
    Paul M., Alegandron and philologus_1 like this.
  11. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    Very nice Tetradrachm of Seleucus!
    In my opinion he was the most successful of the diadochi, though Ptolemy gives him a run for his money. Seleucus lost his satrapy then gained it back with less than 500 companions, managed to defeat both Antigonus and Demetrius( both excellent generals in their own right) with less resources and manpower in the Babylonian War.
    He subjugated the entire east of Alexander’s domain, made peace with Chandragupta in exchange for 500 elephants which then singlehandedly saved the coalition’s tail at the Battle of Ipsus in 301 BCE.

    Here is my stater of his from Babylon.
    47353F61-B258-4099-A5BC-B92BDA7835B2.jpeg
    Seleucus I Nikator
    AR Stater
    311-281 BCE
    Babylon mint
     
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  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Nope! :D

    PTOLEMY was the Greatest of the Diadochi!

    upload_2020-5-5_15-18-30.png
    Egypt Ptolemy I Soter Tet Delta bankers marks CELATOR DELTA called out
     
    Ryro, Broucheion, Paul M. and 3 others like this.
  13. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    A89E89F2-A76F-4F09-9C51-7214E0201383.jpeg
    :p
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
  14. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    LOL, yeah, now I know how you made that decision about Seleukos...
     
    Ryro likes this.
  15. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I can't honestly tell if the coin was worked on after being cracked out of the slab. It's entirely possible it was cleaned up, or it could be just different lighting. I agree with @dougsmit, especially the point about the smaller photo hiding flaws.
     
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