SEGS NOT HONORING GUARANTEE

Because it is none of anyone's business. In my case, Larry never inquired as to what I had in the coin - he sought to dodge liability all together. I think the OP is in a similar situation. This certainly isn't about hoping to win the jackpot from SEGS - if you read my other post, I sent it in for honorable reasons. It appears as if Larry is trying to dodge all liability and renege on his guarantee.

 

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I read your posts. Thx. Now may be a good time to pursue your claim, so Larry can rethink his position given that multiple people are not taking his letter as the end-all word.

 

Sounds like we are exactly in the same boat.

 

Roper room should've been dismissed pages ago... Now, please.. you completely removed it from its context; I know it, you know it, and anyone who can read does too. Anyone, aside from yourself, with half a brain could clearly see that IN NO WAY was I saying what you accused me of. Again and again in this thread I've voiced my opinion that he indeed NEEDS TO STAND BEHIND HIS GUARANTEE, yet here you are accusing me of just the opposite. Brilliant!

Do I blame the OP? Absolutely, and for the fact that she believes, or at least believed, that she was owned THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS; is this really that unreasonable or hard to understand? This is about EXPECTATIONS, and those of the OP are, or at least were, wholly unrealistic. Tell me, baseball, do you think Mr. Briggs was "guaranteeing" some newbie could buy a coin and cross it at grade? Do you think he was "guaranteeing" if someone who shouldn't be buying coins overpays, that he'd cover their losses and perhaps toss them a ridiculous windfall for good measure? Of couse not... you're smarter than that (I think) yet here you are dismissing completely reasonable and best-case resolutions in favor of what? Come on.... you tell us what you think this guarantee means or what you think is fair. Should she get the $5k solely because that's what she paid (regardless of if that's what the coin would have been worth as a SEGS66), or should Mr. Briggs be a doll and just cough up the $13k to be a sweetheart? If paying her based upon what the same date/mint/denomination in SEGS66 plastic is "worth", or paying the difference between that number and the same for a SEGS66 so disgusts you, please share what you feel is an equitable solution.
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In total agreement with you it appears to be a liability dodge.

 

Books calm down your going to blow an artery and no one here reads/cares what you post.

 

Nor could I personally care what you think of me, but when you come here spewing swill, you're going to get called on it. The very notion of Mr. Briggs owing you $13k isn't just nonsense, but pure idiocy; get that through your head. All the whining about the guarantee means nothing until or unless you can grasp that he's not guaranteeing you a windfall.

Now, I'm not sure what part of my post was so hard for you and others to comprehend, but if you would come down from your lofty victim perch for a moment, perhaps you'd see that I was agreeing that he indeed NEEDS to stand behind his guarantee, just not in the way YOU want (not deserve). The two options laid out are completely reasonable; if the coin, in SEGS66 is worth what you paid for it, refunding the price in full should be an option. However, if it's not and you overpaid, it shouldn't. I didn't see anything in his guarantee about standing behind prices paid, and that's the point here; it doesn't matter what you paid but what the coin is actually worth, from repeated results, on the open market. It's perfectly reasonable to include the price you paid when trying to determine a "value", but its not the sole indicator.

 

Would the OP mind copy/pasting the initial letter you received as explanation?

Lol, ten years between grades, and the only thing different would appear to be fuzzier vision on the part of he who graded same coin twice.

 

For those expressing criticism towards the OP, this doesn't appear to be a case where the OP is attempting to force PCGS/NGC standards on SEGS. SEGS itself agreed that the coin was overgraded. SEGS's sole argument is that it has no liability not that it isn't liable for value that comparable PCGS and NGC coins would fetch. The denial of liability was conditioned solely upon a change in corporate structure. There was no attempt for SEGS to be reasonable.

Imagine if PCGS did something like this. There would be many pissed forum members, and it would arguably cause instability in the certified coin market. The fact that most of us don't take SEGS grading seriously does not alter the calculus. Given the mentality of many collectors here that are accepting to this, do not be too surprised if you see other companies pull something similar. PCGS has already retroactively killed the copper color guarantee, exempted PVC damaged coins from its guarantee, publicly refused to honor its guarantee on a MS70 Ike dollar scheduled for auction, and announced a bright line rule (by David Hall on his own forums) that anything more than 3 points overgraded would be presumed to be a mechanical error.

This thread has implications well beyond SEGS.

 

Well, you're wrong about that. I just read all of his posts.

 

Is there an SEGS price guide?

 

If Larry Briggs is any kind of a smart businessman, he did not void the guarantee without first consulting legal counsel. I suspect the actual voiding was executed by the change in corporate structure.

 

It has taken me twelve years to learn what I know about numismatics and the coin market. And I am still learning. There's no way I am even close to knowing everything about numismatics (I would estimate I know around 0.05% of the WHOLE of numismatics), but I feel pretty confident in my knowledge to get by without TPGs. I am going to stick to raw coins or undergraded slabbed coins (and I might keep them in slabs only for protection), and the info above only enforces my decision.

Now I am not saying that 12 years of experience is a sweet spot or that I am better than anyone else, but I am frustrated with the coin market nowadays. I have forced myself to learn how to grade accurately and to spot problem coins and counterfeits so that I don't have to rely on a TPG or fall victim to someone's error or deceit. Again, I am still learning.

 

But you are assuming same ownership sir. There is no indication of that, in fact someone posted how the current principal worked for others before, then bought the assets when the corp became insolvent. The only instances of piercing a veil of a legal entity is those cases of true identical ownership and intent to defraud.

The OP bought a coin graded by the corp. I do not see how the LLC is responsible, assuming the corp was not dissolved ONLY to avoid liabilities, a high hurdle to prove if not identical ownership.

 

So we're investing now, are we? Collectors turned investors? I'm ashamed for ya. Oh, and let's say I buy into a certain 'stock' on the exchange. Is my investment guaranteed? No it ain't.

 

I would say most of here respects Books posts. He has been here proving his knowledge and helping people for many years. It is new members who need to earn respect in my opinion.

Btw, ever ask your cpa husband if an unrelated LLC is responsible for a defunct corps debts?

 

He's already said he is fine with what he paid for the coin which is not a windfall. Everyone else has grasped that aspect.

 

I guess it is since you keep hounding it over and over and over again.

This has NOTHING to do with expectation and EVERYTHING to do with standing behind a guarantee. Everyone else has realized that by reading the thread.

I have already stated what I think the guarantee means several times yet you ask again. Strongly suggest you actually read the thread.

 

It only took me a few months of listening to his bombast to realize his admitted wisdom was not worth putting up with his vicious nature. I have no respect for the man, do not feel he deserves any, and will not see one of his posts again.