Scipio African-I-guess!!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ryro, Oct 18, 2018.

  1. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Thrilled to finally win an image that is supposedly, fingers crossed, of the great thrasher of Hannibal, Scipio Africanus (given the name Africanus due to his defeating of the leader of Carthage and all time great strategist and militaristic innovator) ...even if the image does make him look like a pencil necked, pixie nosed, UPS delivery driver.
    333597.l.jpg
    Cn. Blasio Cn.f.. Denarius, 3.96g. (h). Rome, 112-11 BC. Obv: Helmeted head right (Scipio Africanus?), mark of value above, caduceus behind, [CN BLA]SIO CN F before. Rx: Jupiter standing. between Juno and Minerva, dot in field, [ROMA] in exergue. Crawford 296/1a.

    Of course we all remember that Rome was being terrorized by Hannibal (in a preemptive strike against the fast growing super power) in most memorable fashion at Cannae. You had the Carthagenians outnumbered nearly 2 to 1. However, Hannibal had a trick up his sleeve...a surprisingly thin center and heavy flanks. So that when the battle started the Romans, having thought that they just broke right through the Cartheginian front line, found the flanks that had been hanging over, like love handles, were now next to and behind them quickly finding themselves surrounded, enveloped and cut down nearly to a man!
    CollageMaker Plus_20186121312244.png
    Carthaginian Domain,
    Sicily
    c.4th-3rdcent.BC. ’
    (17mm,2.7g,3h).
    WreathedheadofTanit l.
    R/Horsestandingr.
    beforepalmtree.SNG
    Copenhagen 1117-9
    (Zeugitania).

    With numerous failures previously, it was now time for Rome to bring in the young gun, then known as, Publius Cornelius Scipio.
    Culminating at the battle of Zama, Scipio was able to out tactic Hannibal the great tactician...with his own tactics!

    In a "supposed" conversation the 2 would have years later Scipio would tell Hannibal that he was the 2nd greatest general of all time, behind only Alexander the Great.
    Hannibal asked, "Why only 2nd?"
    To which Scipio replied, "Because I beat you."

    Of course Scipio's legend and name would reverberate for years. His daughter Cornelia would be a celebrated living embodiment for virtue in Rome...and mother of the harbingers of one of the most important political upheavals in history...the Gracchi brothers! (Wish those boys had some coins. #teamtiberius)
    And his nephew, after "conquering" Asia, went by Asiagenus.
    CollageMaker Plus_20181071514927.png CollageMaker Plus_20184521405856.png
    L. SCIPIO ASIAGENUS
    Serrate Denarius (106 BC).
    Rome. Obv: Laureate head
    of Jupiter left; N to lower left.
    Rev: L SCIP ASIAG. Jupiter
    driving quadriga right,
    preparing to hurl thunderbolt
    and holding reins and
    sceptre. Crawford 311/1b.
    3.77 g. 19 mm.

    Does anyone have an opinion on if the image is that of the man. I confess it does certainly bare similarities to the famous bust of Scipio.
    220px-Escipión_africano.jpg

    Post those Scipios, Hannibals, Cartheginian or anything you find awesome.
     
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I've always been fond of the coin of Blasio. Not sure why, but the shape of the helmeted head and the nose are very distinctive. Here is my example:

    Cn Blasio C F.jpg
     
  4. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    This coin is also speculated to depict Scipio, but a lifetime issue (24mm, 10.3g). It was minted somewhere around the transition of Carthaginian to Roman power in Spain in 209 BCE, and the portrait does look rather Roman. (Of course, that style of Roman portraiture on coins only became current much later, though.) The thought is that the mint workers had a habit of infusing the commander's features into the god's portrait on the coin (Melqart?), and when Scipio took over in Carthago Nova, they continued in the same vein, at least until they were stopped. (Thus the scarcity of the issue.)
    Screen Shot 2018-10-18 at 8.05.53 PM.jpg

    Here's a similarly speculative alleged depiction of Hannibal (1/4 shekel, 1.77g):
    Screen Shot 2018-10-18 at 8.15.43 PM.jpg

    Crawford is skeptical that your denarius depicts Scipio, and suggests that it's Mars.

    So our coins might depict these great historical figures, but it's highly uncertain. Unfortunately that's the best we're gonna get! :bucktooth:
     
  5. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Ryro, the bronze bust you have pictured is dated to the 1st cen.BCE, & was unearthed in Herculaneum. It presently resides in the Naples National Archaeological Museum & is probably the most accurate likeness of him.
     
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  6. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    Ryro said: Does anyone have an opinion on if the image is of that man, I confess it does certainly bare similaraties to the famous bust of Scipio.

    I have the man described as Jupiter

    P1170390.JPG
     
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  7. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Excellent Asiagenus! Though I was referring to the bust of Africanus, just below the question, looking like the image on the Blasio coin. As pointed out, some think it's just Mars. Though the wonderful bust looks to me like the great general.
     
  8. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Nice Denarius @Ryro

    And like @Severus Alexander , I have what is believed to be a portrait of Scipio in his younger years after he captured Carthago Nova. This is BEFORE he was Africanus, and honor bestowed AFTER he defeated Hannibal at the Battle of Zama in 202 BCE. This portrait really does not resemble the bust above. However, did YOU look like a your man in your twenties as you have aged into later years? If this is a true portrait, this would be the first living Roman on a coin. Although, it was minted far from Rome and minted in bronze so that it would not truly violate Roman custom (the Senate controls the silver coins...)

    Below are a couple denominations of Bronze coins of Scipio minted in Carthago Nova:

    Carthago Nova SCIPIO Africanus Roman Occupation 209-206 BCE Sear Vol2 6575 Rare.jpg
    Carthago Nova SCIPIO Africanus Roman Occupation 209-206 BCE Sear Vol2 6575 Rare

    Carthago Nova Scipio 209-206 BCE AE 14 Horse Head RARE.jpg
    Carthago Nova Scipio 209-206 BCE AE 14 Horse Head RARE

    Roman Republic
    Bronze 1/5 unit,
    1.606g, maximum diameter 14.6mm, die axis 0o
    Carthago Nova mint, weight, 209 - 206 B.C.
    Obv: bare male head (Scipio Africanus?) left
    Rev: horse head right
    Ref: SNG BM Spain 129, Burgos 556
    VF, rough,
    rare
    Comment: In order to force Hannibal to retreat from Italy, Scipio Africanus attacked Carthaginian Spain and took Carthago Nova in 209 B.C. References most often identify this type as Punic, struck before 209 B.C., but they also note that the head is "Roman style." Some authorities believe, as we do, that this type was struck after 209, under Roman rule. Carthaginian coins sometimes depicted Barcid generals. This coin possibly depicts the Roman general Scipio Africanus.
     
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