Scan A Photo, Know the Provenance

Actually, the OCR was done in-house.

I am curious as to the methodology you use to search the CNG print catalogs on issuu. Did you just enter the moneyer and reference and check every entry?

 

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Usually I start off searching by Crawford number, then if that returns no hits(either because in this case it was slightly misattributed or because the OCR butchered the number I.e. XXX/Y becomes XXJ/Y) I try to get creative and enter things like the die number. The die number is what found this one. Also if I've already checked the archives on the website then I only check those catalogs that I know aren't indexed on the website which cuts down my work substantially.

 

This method worked for this one as well. Just searched for the Crawford number:

 

I received the same for my Mithrapata. Zero hits.

Since I used the Triton photo, a miss would indicate that either the SW does not work or that Triton XIX is not in their database at this time. Since "Ardi" says the SW works, I will assume the reason is the latter.

I have credits left for 3 more free searches. I may try it again with a non-CNG coin. Or I may try one with old provenance and see how they do with that. Or I may conclude that this is not what it hopes to be.

I will wait to see what happens with AJ's submissions.

 

I just submitted an ex CNG coin. We'll see what happens.

 

Hello,

I am very pleased to read your comments regarding this service as I have created it.

I would like to give some more details about this service to help you understand how it works. If you have some questions, do not hesitate!

A point I think I need to explain is about database: it stops when AcSearch and Coinarchives begin. So usually, the database stops at the turn of 2000, depending on the compagnies. That might be why some of the recent provenances are not found.

Do not hesitate to contact me.

Best regards,

Jonas

 

Hi, @Provenance Hunter! Thanks for stopping by to answer questions. I'm sure we'll have more as some of us go through the process.

 

Thanks for stopping by @Provenance Hunter ! It will be interesting to see how this develops.

 

Stick around PH, if for no other reason than to see how we fare with this program.

 

Thanks for clarifying the point on the stop date of the database, I think that makes sense.

@TIF mentioned that she was told her coin, which did not yield any hits in this search would be kept on the list for future searches as more auctions get added. At this point have you decided how long coins that don't yield a hit will continue to be kept on the list to be searched again?

All the best!

 

Thanks for your question. I think we will keep the pictures for at least 6 months. The idea is that you only pay 5 credits once. We tend to add around 50'000 to 100'000 new auction records/month so there might be a chance that the coin gets a match later.

Best Regard!

 

Hi Provenance Hunter!

First, very cool idea and welcome to the board! I've been considering doing the same with my library, which is pretty extensive for Roman Republicans. I wish you the very best for your business. I will probably be using it on some of my coins, because I'm a major provenance hound and run into dead ends but know there are provenances out there!

Are you willing to try a little test for the CoinTalk group? Ardatirion will be interested in this one too since his firm sold the coin in Triton just a few weeks ago. It has a KILLER pedigree, apparently unknown to CNG, currently lost to history by the price it fetched (which would have been higher with the pedigree marketed IMO).

I actually have a nicer one with a better pedigree or I would have bought it!




I'll share the provenance on here if you can't find it. It'll cost you an extra free search for me though. Your mission, should you choose to accept it!

C

 

I am utterly blown away by this service. It has found pedigrees for five of my coins so far and it is actively searching for others. However, Jonas has made a truly phenomenal find!!

My Colosseum sestertius is pedigreed back to 1910. Ex Dr. Paul Hartwig, Auction MM P&P Santamaria, Rome 07.03.1910, Lot n°1215

I purchased it with no pedigree whatsoever and now it looks like it has one of the oldest pedigrees known for the type. Higher end coins are pricier to run through the system but this was absolutely well worth it. I'm thrilled and looking forward to further finds with bated breath!

 

Congrats AJ. Knowing the province just adds another dimension to a numismatist.

 

My limited knowledge of photography makes it hard for me to understand how this could possibly work especially for old catalogs with images technically very different from today's standards (including those with plaster casts?). The worst part in my mind is that the number of sales that only photographed the best coins will mean there would be few hits for coins not worth several hundred dollars in 1970. This will lead to the impression and give evidence that coins producing no hits are recently looted even if the only sin of the coin was not making the cut when it was sold a hundred years ago. I see this as a valuable tool for Dekadrachms but not so much for tiny fractions of obols. I would love to see examples of successful hits in the oldest sales currently indexed showing both the old and new images together. It would seem a technology with value increasing exponentially with the number of obscure catalogs indexed.

A question: How does a coin having changed over the years affect the likelihood of a hit? I mean something as simple as toning or cleaning or as extreme as it being a victim of bronze disease (yes, there are very rare coins that would be worth running even if they had been victimized). It would also seem good to scan in records of coins not in sales but illustrated in early literature (could we find coins looted from a museum by establishing a match, for example, to one of the few Reka Devnia plates?).

Update: AJ hit to a plaster cast is really impressive.

 

Wow, what a tremendous addition to the history of your coin! Congratulations!!

 

That's great!

 

Thank you AncientJoe for sharing!

 

Here are the other matches as well:

Kyrene stater, back to 1960:


Philip V, looks like it was lightly cleaned between now and then, but it is clearly the same coin:


Larissa drachm, impressive considering how different the lighting angles are:


Daric, which I knew was sold in 1989 but had no information as to where:

 

AJ - Amazing find on that Sestertius. Amazing! Congrats and thanks for sharing your hits.