Saxony Thalers

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Insider, Dec 31, 2021.

  1. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    What is the difference between a Mining Thaler and a Convention thaler? Is it just their designs?
     
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  3. DEA

    DEA Well-Known Member

    I cannot wait to hear from those more knowledgeable than I, but I'm going to make a stab at this. Mining thalers, I think, began in about 1486, which contained about 32 grams of silver. It was the joachimsthaler that started the 'thaler' identification. Not too much time later, the silver from the Americas began flooding Europe.

    It seems the Leipziger Fuss (Leipzig Standard) of 1690 had been 19.5 grams of silver in a thaler. Friedrich II the Great (ruled 1740-1786) had to debase his thaler to 16.7 grams of silver because of the many conflicts he got himself into. But the Konventions- denominations (Konventionstaler, Koventionsgulden, et al) were associated with a monetary convention between Austria and Bavaria in 1753, which the majority of the issuing states in the Holy Roman Empire stuck to despite Fred the Great's major wins.

    The Koventionstaler, from what I can make out, was equal to one reichstaler or two gulden - struck at the ratio of ten to the fine mark of silver, which is less than 19.5 grams of silver but more than 16.7 grams of silver.

    So, if this is all correct, we're talking a significant difference in the amount of silver in a mining thaler (about 32 grarms) versus a Konventionstaler (about 19.5 grams). Yes? Or am completely lost?

    I'm pulling this out of the SC of German Coins, 3rd edition, in the section titled A Brief Overview of German Monetary History.
     
  4. expat

    expat Remember you are unique, just like everyone else Supporter

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  5. Chris B

    Chris B Supporter! Supporter

    While I don't know the answer to the question, Mining Thalers are some of my favorite coins. The ones I have, I would consider to be commemoratives.

    The 2nd one is a modern re-strike.

    GerBru175207.jpg
    GerBru175211.jpg
    GerBru176507.jpg
    GerBru174505.jpg
     
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  6. Joshua Lemons

    Joshua Lemons Well-Known Member

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  7. wittwolf

    wittwolf Well-Known Member

    Mining Talers or Ausbeutetaler in german where minted only by states that owned big silver mines, right from the product of these mines. So the main difference to other Talers is that you know the location where the silver from your Taler comes from and the design.
    Here two german pages you can copy into the translator:
    https://germanycash.de/taler/ausbeutetaler.html
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausbeutemünze

    Saxony and Prussia possibly minted the most mining talers, here two later and more common examples from my collection:
    Kingdom of Prussia - Taler - 1835 - King Friedrich Wilhelm III.
    Taler Friedrich Wilhelm III.png
    Kingdom of Saxony - Taler - 1870 - King Johann

    Taler Johann.png
     
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  8. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    This is in German, but should be pretty easy for folks to translate/understand. I think it’s pretty concise but comprehensive. Thanks for getting me back into research! :)

    https://moneymuseum.com/pdf/gestern/05_neuzeit/01 Der Taler die Handelsmuenze des 16 Jhdts.pdf


    Two other reads:

    Here’s a pretty good read on mining thalers: https://coinweek.com/auctions-news/...​-featured-in-stacks-bowers-2019-ana-auction/

    And here’s a book on the Brunswick ones (never read it, just found it researching). https://www.vcoins.com/de/stores/charles_davis/44/product/duve_history_of_the_redeemable_multiple_and_mining_talers_of_brunswickluneburg/1157478/Default.aspx

     
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