Saturday Night Free For All

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Orange Julius, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. Brian Bucklan

    Brian Bucklan Well-Known Member

    I ran across this little ae4 coin of Leo I yesterday with the Emperor and captive reverse: Leo Barb Emperor Captive.jpg
    The reverse depiction of Leo seems to be the inspiration for the South Park Canadians like Terrance and Phillip.

    Terrance Phillip.jpg
     
    Nvb, Cliff Reuter, svessien and 12 others like this.
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  3. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    As a Canadian I approve of this message. Hilarious!
     
    Ryro likes this.
  4. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    The reverse depiction should read: Augustus/Caligula? laureate and togate, seated on curule chair, holding olive branch in right hand.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  5. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    Lately as I have been communicating with Valentinian I have been re examining some of my argentei. I remember when these coins were very rare and whenever I would see one in a catalogue put out by one of the more elite auction houses I always wished I had enough money to purchase one of these coins. Since then their value has plummeted and now I own a number. This one is kind of special. In RIC it is listed as being from the mint of Carthage though more recent scholarship has challenged that assumption and placed it at the mint of Rome. The other is the more unusual reverse. It has been clearly marked that this coin is 1/96 of a Roman pound. Diocletian Ar Argenteus Rome 300 AD Obv Head right laureate Rv wreath. RIC 15a (Carthage) 3.47 grms 18 mm Photo by W. Hansen dioc21.jpg
     
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  6. bcuda

    bcuda El Ibérico loco

    IMG_5992.JPG Anyone know what this is ?

    IMG_6002.JPG
    IMG_6002.JPG s-l1600xxx.jpg
     
  7. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Tell that to Lucius Verus:

    Lucius_Verus-5.jpg
     
    Sulla80, DonnaML and Orange Julius like this.
  8. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I picked up another coin featuring Kabeiros in a distyle temple. This makes my fourth such coin.

    Domna Thessalonica Kabeiros Agora.jpg
    Julia Domna, AD 193-217.
    Roman provincial Æ 22.1 mm, 6.32 g, 7 h.
    Macedon, Thessalonica, AD 196-211.
    Obv: IOVΛIA ΔOMNA CЄ, bare-headed and draped bust right.
    Rev: ΘЄCCAΛΟΝΙΚЄΩΝ, distyle temple containing Kabeiros standing facing, head left, holding rhyton and hammer.
    Refs: BMC 5.120,94; SNG ANS 858; Varbanov 4355; Touratsoglou --.
     
  9. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Interesting. I stand corrected. Not all fibulas are fastened over the right shoulder. Some are over the left shoulder.

    I just looked at several wikipedia articles with images of busts of emperors and found most, but not all, have the fibula on the right shoulder. For example, here is the wikipedia image of Lucius Verus (the emperor shown above):

    500px-Lucius_Verus_-_MET_-_L.2007.26_cropped.jpg
    Searching on the emperors names at wikipedia, most have busts or full statues that have a fastener. (Some just have heads, so are of no help.) Those on the right:
    Augustus
    Vespasian
    Titus
    Domitian has it on the left
    no Trajan with fibula
    Hadrian
    Antoninus Pius
    Marcus
    Commodus
    Septimius Severus
    Severus Alexander
    Elagabalus

    I looked under "fibula" and did not find a statement that they were always worn over the right shoulder.

    I looked through many "Getty images" of Romans. It seems that by far most are over the right shoulder, but not all.

    I looked at my own images of statues in Rome and found some with fastening on the left. I mention my own because I am sure they were not digitally altered. It is easy to flip images horizonally. Without words in the background it can be impossible to tell if an image has been flipped for artistic reasons.
    For example, here is the original Lucius Verus image, flipped horizontally.

    Lucius_Verus-5.jpg

    If you had not seen the original, the orientation would seem to be the other way.
     
  10. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    A couple more from the Uffizi Museum that @Curtisimo posted.

    Hadrian:

    0D43DE9B-961A-42D8-A199-1FAC5F3AB070.jpg
    A different one of Lucius Verus:

    0B9E730E5-AC00-442E-A514-74CE55E0C441.jpg
     
    Curtisimo, Ryro, Marsyas Mike and 2 others like this.
  11. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    I guess it would be a thought to wish everyone a belated Merry Christmas and I hope everyone has an opportunity to spend some of the holiday with family and friends. If not all at once but perhaps in a serial arrangement. I really did not think about coins much for the last couple of days but somebody reminded me of something I needed to get done and while looking for another coin I found this one. Soloi Ae 25 100-30 BC Obv Head of Helios right radiate. Rv. Athena enthroned left. SNG BN 1193 7.89 grms 25 mm. Photo by W. Hansen soloi1.jpg It is interesting that the image of Helios does bear a resemblance to Alexander at least on this coin.
     
  12. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

    Is it possible that this had to do with wether they were right/left handed?

    I have wondered about that with left/right facing portraits too, if the left facing portraits were made by left handed engravers.
     
  13. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Here's another for comparison - and I wonder if these continued to be minted in "ΣΟΛΕΩΝ" through the sacking by Tigranes II and relocation of the residents to Tigranocerta in 83 BC,with the some residents making their way back after Tigranocerta was sacked by Lucullus in 69 BC, and in 67 BC settling of pirates in Soloi by Pompey the Great. It doesn't sound like a great place to live during the time of this coin.

    "Thus successful in his campaign, Lucullus struck camp and proceeded to Tigranocerta, which city he invested and began to besiege. There were in the city many Greeks who had been transplanted, like others, from Cilicia, and many Barbarians who had suffered the same fate as the Greeks, — Adiabeni, Assyrians, Gordyeni and Cappadocians, whose native cities Tigranes had demolished, and brought their inhabitants to dwell there under compulsion."
    -Plutarch, Lives, Lucullus 26.1


    Cilicia Soloi AE.jpg
    Cilicia, Soloi, circa 100-30 BC, AE
    Size: 23mm, 7.21 g, 12h
    Obv: Radiate head (of Helios?) right
    Rev: Athena Nikephoros seated left; ΣΟΛΕΩΝ downward to left.
    Ref: SNG France 1193; SNG Levante 873
    Note: ex CNG, ex Kelly J. Krizan, M.D. Collection
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  14. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    About fibulas:

    That reasonable suggestion seems contrary to this evidence: My post (fifth one above)
    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/saturday-night-free-for-all.350933/page-31#post-5277130
    had a bust of Lucius Verus with the fibula on the right shoulder, and a previous post
    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/saturday-night-free-for-all.350933/page-31#post-5276613
    of @Roman Collector
    had a Lucius Verus with one on the left shoulder.
     
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  15. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    What's everyone working on late tonight?

    I'm just trying to squeeze the last few drops of vacation out of this holiday before work comes around again Monday.

    Not many new coins worth showing. Prices even among scrappy ebay coins have been too high so I haven't bought much from auction or ebay lately. I get the feeling that there are a lot of people out there buying ebay coins for resale trying to make a few extra dollars... but buying them for what their worth. I think there are going to be a lot of people holding coins that they can't unload for a profit.

    Anyhoo... I did pick up this Claudius II Alexandrian Tetradrachm. It's a nice coin. I have a lot of tetradrachms from this period but to this point, no year one coins from Claudius so here you go.
    ClaudiusIIAlexandriaEmmett3878.JPG
    Egypt, Alexandria. Claudius II. A.D. 268-270. BI tetradrachm
    Year 1=A.D. 268. AVT K KΛAVΔIOC CEB, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right / L A, eagle standing right, head left, with wreath in its beak. Emmett 3878(1), Dattari 3015; Curtis 1670. VF.
     
  16. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    BTW... as I try to attribute this coin using Milne, it's not easy. The obverse legend seems pretty continuous but is sorta broken by the laurel wreath. So this this legend AVT K KΛAVΔIOC CEB or AVT K KΛA-VΔIOC CEB (A1 or A2). Then... is this Eagle standing on a thunderbolt or just something else (b2 or b3)? I really like Emmett for the simplicity but also like Milne for the detail too. However, sometimes the detail can be a bit much for a hand-made coin. See the photos from Milne to see what I'm working with... At the end of the day, with this much specificity, it may be a guess.
    Milne1.jpg
    Milne2.jpg
     
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  17. thejewk

    thejewk Well-Known Member

    I'm watching an eBay bid on an absolutely grotty and corroded but very rare coin, hoping nobody else spots it. If I am correct, I think it's the second known of the type.
     
  18. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    Another thread on CT talked about putting up your worst coin. I cannot think of any of my coins as being the worst. They have all been purchased to fill a particular niche. If I had a candidate for worst it might be this coin. It is neither impressive, expensive, nor uncommon. However I purchased it because I thought it would fill a void and it does have for the third century AD a rather unique reverse. Septimius Severus Ar Denarius 204 AD Obv Head right laureate. Rv The Dea Celestus riding a lion right. RIC 266 3.30 grms 18 mm ssd61.jpg Photo by W. Hansen
     
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  19. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    I've been rephotographing some of my late Roman bronze imitations. I went to numerous coin fairs in Britain in the 1980s and 1990s and, at that time, was collecting ancient imitations (among other things). They were common in Britain. Thousands (I don't think I am exaggerating) of terrible small FEL TEMP REPARTIO fallen horseman (post 348) were offered and very many GLORIA EXERCITVS two soldiers and one or two standards were offered (330-340, two standards at first, one standard after about 335, with sizes continually decreasing), but not many were in pleasing or remarkable condition.

    One thing I liked about some of them was their small size. A tiny reproduction of a common type appealed to me. However, it is hard to grasp size from a photo, so this next image is today's attempt to show you what a small GLORIA EXERCITVS is like by comparing it to an official one:

    Constantine2GEimitpair.jpg

    The small one looks well-enough done to be official, but is only 14-13 mm compared to the larger one which is 19-18 mm (somewhat larger than usual), so I have regarded it as a remarkably well done imitation.

    The mintmark
    • PLG
    is of 330-331 when official examples are larger. We might wonder if this is a smaller denomination (a half?), but I doubt it. It is too rare to have mattered in the currency system.

    As I said, you can't really get a feel for the size, even from that photo. My reaction to it in hand is "Cute!"
     
  20. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I don't know why you would see this as a bad coin in any way, let alone your "worst." I'm quite fond of my example; it fits right in with all my other animal coins. And how often does one see Dea Caelestis on a Roman coin, let alone riding a lion side-saddle, let alone with Carthage mentioned in the legend?

    Septimius Severus, Indulgentia, Dea Caelestis & lion - jpg version.jpg

    Plus, yours is wearing a very nice top hat.
     
  21. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Worst is a relative description. Years ago I saw four General officers walking together in a hall at the Pentagon. Three of them had four stars; the fourth had three. He was 'worst'.

    Below are two other CARTH coins. Which is 'worst'? It is a matter of opinion that will not be universal. Is it grade, type, style or what that makes one better and another the worst?
    rj4630bb0308.jpg rj4640bb0607.jpg
     
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