Salonina As

I just had just bought a silver Salonina because I thought there were no nice bronzes available, but then I found this Sestertius-sized (29 mm) As, seemingly made of brass. I am not a fan of patina, but I have never seen such an intact and round bronze from this era (262 in this case, I suppose).
Now I can´t decide which one to keep...

 

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It does seem a bit unusually/perfectly round. What's the weight and size ? Although I see nothing else to make me wary.....but I seem to be wrong about half the time LOL

Love the centering, strike, detail and the patina!!!

 

Love that patina!!!!!!!!!

 

Not my specialty so take my words with a grain of salt. I don't like it, something seems fishy, the bust of Salonina seems off as does the perfect flan.
I hope I'm wrong and it's legit; if it is then you have a keeper!

 

Gorgeous As! Your bronzes are great.

I have a Salonina:

RI Salonina wife of Gallienus 254-268 CE AE Antoninianus 3.61g 20mm Rome mint 267-268 CE crescent Deer Walking delta RIC 15

 

Under what circumstances did you find it? I such an item were in normal commerce and genuine, we would see similar listings in sales from the last few hundred years. A one of a kind item that has a smooth, tooled look quite possibly is just that: a tooled fantasy. For the price of a slab, you could have it expertised but I would expect it to come back as tooled to change ID. My opinion is worth no more than the price you paid for it.

I would expect a Salonina bronze to have similar fabric to similar coins of Gallienus and Valerian. There are a few in the record that seem mostly less round and thicker. This coin is too unusual for me to accept based on my limited experience.

 

I am at work and don't have access to my references, but I do have an authentic "reduced sestertius" of Salonina and it's much smaller.

I think your coin is a sestertius of Otacilia Severa or (less likely) Herennia Etruscilla that has been smoothed and tooled.

 

Now that I compare it to acsearch...I have a ton of doubt about genuineness....let alone smoothing and tooling.

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=cornelia salonina aes &category=1-2&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&images=1&currency=usd&thesaurus=1&order=0&company=

 

Brass coins always set me on edge. I know of very few ancients that were actually made from brass.

 

Well, based on your avatar I'd guess you're an expert in brass.

 

Sestertius, dupondius and semis were all brass.

 

Anyway, it is heavily tooled, smoothed and re-engraved. I agree I think the host coin was likely and Otacilia. Judging from the photo is also looks as if the edges were hammered as well.

 

The first coin in Mikey's link looks like a die match so the coin is probably not tooled to change ID. Tooled or smoothed is still possible. The one in the link
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=207729
was described as 'somewhat smoothed' and is not as good looking as yours. It is also described as unique as a sestertius but that the obverse die is known with other reverses including silver medallions. The coin strikes me as worth sending to David Sear or to NGC for certification. I was wrong above about the fabric if this was produced by the medallion standards and the coin needs to be seen by someone a lot more expert than I am, in person and armed with a microscope and the skill to interpret what is seen. I remain lacking in understanding how such a coin ends up in the hands of someone who does not know the die link details. Even if it is smoothed, it is the kind of coin that should sell in a big sale. On the other hand, if it is fake, someone needs to examine the linked coin and the quoted medallions. If this is tooled from an Otacillia, so were the others. Coin Talk is not the place to vet such a coin.

 

OK it gets worse. The linked sale from Freeman and Sear 1 lot 340 says the obverse die was used with a sestertius reading PIETAS AVGG SC but the coin they photograph actually reads PIETAS with the same high C in SC and the same figure. I have no idea where they got Pudicitia. The ETA of PIETAS is rather clear and there is no way you can fit Pudicitia in that space. I'm tending now to both coins smelling to high heaven but I do not know. I do not know when David Sear stopped having active connection with the firm bearing his name but the coin in that photo is not the coin described. It is almost like someone too a poor example of the coin and tooled it to match the erroneous description in that sale. That could win the prize for the dumbest thing said on Coin Talk in 2016 but I can't see a better answer. I would love to see what Sear or NGC (Vagi/Murphy) would say about the coin. The answer could make the difference between a $2000 coin and a $20 one. I offer $20.

 

The only bronze Pudicitia standing coins of Salonina in RIC--joint or sole reign--are some Antoniniani and an As (RIC 51, sole reign). Asses of Salonina are quite reduced, weighing only about 6-7 grams, with Sestertii weighing 12-20 grams.

@Julius Germanicus -- how much does that coin weigh?

Although 29 mm is not out of the question, Salonina and Gallinus Sestertii could be as little as 24 mm in diameter, like this one, RIC 42 joint reign, which weighs 15.24 gm (identifying it as a sestertius):



The silver medallion with Pudicitia, RIC 24 joint reign, is 31 mm in diameter, but it depicts Pudicitia seated.

Now that I am home and have access to RIC, I see that the Pudicitia Sestertii of Otacilia and of Herennia Etruscilla only portray Pudicitia seated as well--so my supposition that this is a smoothed and tooled Otacilia or Etruscilla has to be tossed out.

The only reference published for a very large AE with Pudicitia standing seems to be Gabl 490y, pl. 42, the plate coin of which was sold by Gemini in the acsearch.info link that Doug provided, and which had been previously sold by Credit Suisse.

So we have a brass coin--as big as a silver medallion that is supposedly an obverse die match with a silver medallion used with a different reverse--with a previously undescribed reverse.

If genuine, Julius's coin would be the second example described and it is much more attractive than the first such coin described. It would be a very important finding, indeed.

It needs to be authenticated by an authority in this area--David Sear or Curtis Clay.

 

This is pretty exciting!

I love how there is still room for new discoveries in ancients.

John

 

Despite @Roman Collector's brilliant demonstration, I'm a bit uncomfortable with the OP coin : portrait doesn't seem consistent with those of Salonina's, too much of a round coin, smoothed/tooled aspect of the fields and letters, strange patina...

Here's a sestertius of hers for comparison. Note the somehow square shaped flan :


Salonina, Sestertius Rome mint, AD 256-260
CORNELIA SALONINA AVG, Diademed and draped bust of Salonina right
IVNO REGINA, Juno standing left, with patera and sceptre, SC in field
20.05 gr
Ref : RIC # 46, RCV #10679, Cohen #62

Q

 

That alone would make me walk away

Germanicus, I'm not too sure if you're still watching your thread, but it sounds like you'd be wise to avoid this coin-target (otherwise, you may always have a few doubts whenever you gaze upon it ... and that's never good)

=> I love looking at my coins and smiling (money well spent)

 

Thank you.

 

The only reason we assume it is Pudicitia is because we are reading the obviously re-engraved legend.