Russia 1888 Medal - Visit to Germany

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by 1934 Wreath Crown, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. 1934 Wreath Crown

    1934 Wreath Crown Well-Known Member

    Russia 1888 Silver Visit to Germany Medal Date Reverse Diakov-1019.1 NGC MS-62 PL (Ex: 1960 Schulman Sale)
    Certification Number:
    4659310-001


    Head of Tsar Alexander III right with legend around; Reverse: Head of Friedrich of Prussia right with legend around.

    I would really appreciate if anyone can give me some additional information on this. Appears to be the only one graded by NGC so I cannot find much on previous sales history and values

    1888 Russia Medal Obv.jpg

    1888 Russia Medal Rev.jpg
     
    eddiespin, Larry E, Chris B and 6 others like this.
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  3. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    No idea about the piece, but the PL is cool ;)
     
  4. willieboyd2

    willieboyd2 First Class User

    Nice medal!

    Those guys could be twins!

    :)
     
  5. Milesofwho

    Milesofwho Omnivorous collector

    That is really neat!
     
  6. chrisild

    chrisild Coin Collector Supporter

    A similar medal (but in bronze) is here:
    http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_970626

    Whether Friedrich III and Alexander III met while Friedrich was still alive, I don't know. Alexander did see Friedrich's successor Wilhelm II in Berlin the following year - and the date 15 June 1888 refers to when Friedrich died, so it must have been made when Wilhelm II was already emperor ...

    Christian
     
  7. 1934 Wreath Crown

    1934 Wreath Crown Well-Known Member

    What has me confused is that the legend is in the Roman script. Also Russia is mentioned as Russland. Strange for a Russian medal, sounds more like a German medal:cool:
     
    chrisild likes this.
  8. chrisild

    chrisild Coin Collector Supporter

    Ah yes, now that you mention it - the slab says RUSSIA, not PRUSSIA. ;) And the hairstyles are very similar indeed. I like the double portrait but still cannot really contribute to solving the background/occasion mystery ...

    Christian
     
  9. willieboyd2

    willieboyd2 First Class User

    Another portrait of Frederick III of Prussia who was king for three months.
    Edward VIII of Great Britain lasted longer.

    [​IMG]
    Germany Prussia 10 Marks 1888-A (Berlin) - Frederick III
    19mm, 3.98gm, 0.900 gold

    A coin like this one was part of the 1946 Hesse Jewel robbery, committed by three American Army officers stationed in Germany.

    After reading an account of the Hesse robbery, I had to have one.

    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/germany-10-marks-frederick-iii-durant-nash-hesse-jewel-heist.152173

    :)
     
  10. willieboyd2

    willieboyd2 First Class User

  11. 1934 Wreath Crown

    1934 Wreath Crown Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure if I would like to acquire this medal now that it almost certainly appears to be of German rather than Russian origin. I was willing to bid what I did because I felt it was a very rare Russian medal in PL condition and we all know those are not easy to find.

    I've asked the auction house to clarify the origins of the medal and provide me with some more information about it. I will most likely cancel the purchase as $1,540 seems a high price for a German medal with uncertain pedigree. What do you all think??
     
  12. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I'm not sure why you bought this without having any idea what it is. Here, let me use the google for you:

    The slab tells you what it is: "Diakov 1019.1"

    It even tells you the pedigree! "Ex. 1960 Shulman Sale"

    This is its reference number, in M.E. Diakov's "Medals of the Russian Empire." This is an 8 volume set, and you want to look in volume 6 to find what you need. If you are a member of the ANA or ANS, you may be able to borrow it from them (otherwise, each volume is a couple of hundred dollars).

    So, it seems like you bought a well identified medal with a long pedigree.

    I'm nearly 100% positive that Great Collections would not cancel this sale based on those facts. Most auction houses have terms that if you bought it, you can't return it unless it was significantly different than described. Buyer's remorse is not a reason for them to cancel the sale.
     
  13. Bert Gedin

    Bert Gedin Well-Known Member

    Yes, probably a German 10 mark coin (probably not medal). The word, "Kaiser" is on both sides, and the text is not in Cyrillic (i.e. Russian). $1.54 seems a reasonable price - no idea, but $1,540n seems well over the top. For a non-ancient coin, despite possibly of silver, the price, to this guy, seems outrageous.
     
  14. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Please read the post immediately above yours.

    Please reply accordingly.
     
  15. Bert Gedin

    Bert Gedin Well-Known Member

    Well, I did look at the coin, marked 10 mark. Happy ? Here are some further facts, without having, makes very little sense, apart from anything else, in having such a medal. Frederick III lived 18.10, 1831 - 15.6, 1888. He was German Emperor 9.3, 1888 -15.6,1888. He died in Potsdam, of laryngeal cancer.
     
  16. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Nowhere on the coin is it marked 10 mark.

    It is, however, listed in the authoritative reference on Russian medals, as I explained above.

    Happy?
     
  17. Bert Gedin

    Bert Gedin Well-Known Member

    Very happy. - Are you obsessed with that one coin/medal, whatever, p-f3.14 ? Where it says "Another portrait of Frederick III of Prussia …", it says 10 mark in the picture. - Concluded.
     
  18. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Dude, we're talking about the medal in the original post, not the coin someone else posted later to show another portrait of the Kaiser. The medal is what the OP is questioning. That other coin is gold, and yet you talk of silver (which the OP clearly is).

    Willful ignorance and troll-like nonsense. Speculation after presented with evidence.... I'm putting you on ignore. Concluded with a goodbye.
     
  19. 1934 Wreath Crown

    1934 Wreath Crown Well-Known Member

    Well actually there is no 'buyer's remorse'. It is still the only graded example at NGC and an MS62PL is not shabby. Moreover, there were a lot of other bidders who wanted the medal. It was described as Very Rare and I believe that with only 1 specimen ever having being graded.

    Its just that it doesn't fit in my collection. I collect mainly sovereigns, some fairly decent ancients and Russian Roubles and gold coins. If it is a German medal mislabeled then I could technically ask for the bid to be cancelled. HA did that for a sovereign described as a Sydney mint which turned out to be the same year but a different Australian mint.

    We shall see what GC decide but I don't think I'll regret my purchase whatever the final outcome.
     
    Spark1951 likes this.
  20. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
    Spark1951 likes this.
  21. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Then why did you buy it?

    This is clearly none of those things!

    As I showed above, it is not German, and it is not mislabeled.

    That is a clear case of something being described which is technically inaccurate. Everything about the listing here and the label are accurate.

    GC has excellent customer service and they may even cancel it because of that. But that would be a clear violation of your contract in bidding, and you should not do it. You were in the wrong to buy it, but you bought it fair and square. Trying to cancel it now is clearly buyer's remorse.

    Caveat emptor, dude.

    If you can find another buyer, then that is great for you.

    I'm still not sure why you would spend so much on a coin that you knew nothing about, had no idea its value, had no idea what it was, and were so willing to break your contract based on the speculation and ill-informed guesses of some random people on the internet. That seems foolish from every angle.
     
    Spark1951 likes this.
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