Rotated Die...US Mint official tolerance.

The question that arises is: does one exist? IMHO...I'd have to say no.

I researched the US Mint's website and its index...no specification or tolerance data found.

I researched error-ref.com...again, no specific tolerance specification found.

I have just finished researching Coin Talk reading old threads but again, no definitive specification found in the twelve threads I found.

Plenty of forum members opined that premiums for rotation doesn't start until 45 degrees. There exists confusion whether it is 15 degrees or 15% (54 degrees) is a minimum. So I ask you...

Can anyone help me find an official Mint specification? Or am I spiraling down the rabbit hole again?...Spark

 

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Yes... Anything within 45 degrees is within tolerance.. in either direction.

 

I just got this information from another website -

Quote - "A US coin is purposely rotated the way it is so you can flip it over and the side you flipped to is right side up. Sometimes the dies that strike either Obverse or Reverse can be tilted more to a side.
You can't tell if the Reverse or the Obverse is rotated.
It can be Coins with at most 8 degrees are considered in the margin of the US Mint. 90 degrees and over are highly valuable and collectible. 15 degrees and under is not very valuable." Closed quote

With some other information

 

I've been accustomed to using the tolerances cited in the book, Official Price Guide to Mint Errors 6th Edition (2002) by Alan Herbert.

III-N-3 Rotated Die Strike - 15 To 45 Degrees
"Usual U.S. Mint tolerance is 7 degrees for each die, so rotations do not take on value below 15 degrees, more usually at 45 degrees or more.

Chris

 

@paddyman98 @cpm9ball ...Thanks to both of you for the info.

This whole thing has come up before and the guy from Italy, gianni, opened the wound yet again in a post yesterday. Personally, I would get enthused at 45 degrees and buy at 90. The best I have found in the last 7 years has been 22-23 degrees ( on a LMC ).

I guess it just isn't that important to the Mint folks if they don't put it on their website. I tried every key word I could think of but all I got was "no results"...Spark

 

Thanks, "Sparky"

Yeah, I saw the thread by Gianni. He has been pressing his luck a few too many times by (first) asking questions and (then) arguing with responders when he doesn't like their (correct) answers. I regret to say that I even tried to give him incorrect information by stating that his rotated die appeared to be only 15 degrees when it was really closer to 30 degrees just to shut him up. Unfortunately, it didn't work. He'll learn soon enough when everyone stops trying to help him.

Chris

 

Suggest you contact Roger Burdette (RogerB) on the CU forums. If anyone has mint records on the rotational tolerance for modern coinage, it's him.

 

This one is about 180 degrees

 

Gee, you must not like Roger! Otherwise, you wouldn't pass this guy off onto him.

@ldhair - Larry, if you're on the CU forums, how about giving Roger a warning.

Chris

 

The best way to judge the actual rotation is to put it in a 2x2 with "LIBERTY" and the date (or the base of the Lincoln Memorial) parallel to the bottom edge of the 2x2. Then, it's very easy to estimate the degree of rotation by flipping it side-to-side.

Chris

 

Good tip! Thanks!

 

In the end - whether the Mint has a specified rotation tolerance standard or not really doesn't matter. Value is determined based on the standard adopted by the coin collecting community.

 

From your mirror pic, rough estimate is 160 degrees...NICE!!!!...Spark

 

Yes, I agree. I just kinda expected to find some kind of specification from the stoopid Mint on their website, ya know? That'll teach me...Spark

 

Their website is focused on marketing current NCLT to the public.

Their website is not designed or intended to be a source of technical or historical information.

Numismatists provide this information through their research.

 

Thanks! I found it while searching rolled pennies.

 

You got me wondering if there are any "error" U.S. coins whose faces are not rotated at all.

 

Was reading your comments and just wanted to let you know I just found a 2001D Roosevelt dime with a 150 degree rotation on the reverse. I've sent it in to PCGS for authentication and grading. Can't wait to see how it grades ( really good Condition) and it's worth.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if it fetched as high as a 100-200% premium.

 

Greg, Welcome to Coin Talk! As you may have gathered, this post is nearly 5 years old, but the comments and information is still valid.

One of the shortcomings of new members ( and I include myself when new as well) is the ignorance of using the forum to data mine information. A veritable cornucopia of correct information exists in forum archived posts. You proved it yourself by resurrecting this one.

Good find on your dime, keep us posted on a new, fresh post…Spark