Rose thorns and Oil

Well that in itself is some recommendation.

Seriously, though, no problem, Boss. Just glad you read it. After all, heck, it was meant especially for you.

 

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Pool Party!

Thanks, Eddie, I wish I would have seen that post. So here's the big question: Besides the fact that I have to have a xylene pool party this weekend (free drinks and appetizers included) for my raw coins, should I crack out the graded coins and resubmit???? How sure are you that the mineral oil was the cause?? Did you only have a few coins or did this happen to all of the coins you left mineral oil on for all those years? How much mineral oil exposure? Did you keep reappling over the years? I can't see the luster getting muted on an EF/AU coin as they don't have much luster anyway. I have maybe 5-7 graded coins with very light coat of mineral oil. Any opinions. I know they will grade, if I resubmit. Also wondering what Thad, Jim, and GD think?

 

Boss, I agree with GD, I would trade off. If you feel you couldn't get your value back, and

is true, then all you would lose would be TPG costs and you would have your own coin back.
Your choice.

Jim

 

Maybe a small discussion of oil would be appropriate. Oil and its derivatives and coal derive from organic origina which have proteins. Certain amino acids in proteins have Sulfur atoms in the structure. Some deposits have a larger proportion of sulfur compunds in the "crude" than other deposits. Never the less, sulfur is there. When distilled, there is still sulfur there, which is one of the reasons why burn emissions are monitored. Now it is true that some processes have been developed to try and remove the sulfur, but much of corrosion of metallic distillery pipes, etc. is due to the sulfides and other sulfur products that is in the products. So no matter how well refined, nor the lightness of the oil, there will be sulfur present. It is protective as far as prevention of oxygen and moisture from reaching metal surface, but it can produce chemical corrosion. Just much slower than if water and oxygen was also present with the sulfur compounds. Synthetic oils are generally synthesized without any sulfur compounds, so its effects on corrosion has been considered to be superior, but no studies on coin preservation are found.

Regular organic oil products can be broken down into water soluble acidic compunds by certain microorganisms ( basis of oil breakdown in oceanic water by barriers), which cause no harm in the sea water due to dilution, but the acid on the coin surface could reasonably cause corrosion.So microorganisms in the environment can affect the corrosion rate.

Any other chemistry people can add or correct any error of mine.:kewl:

Thanks

Jim

 

Boss, here's that picture, again, of those two piles. Left is the water-soaked, and right is the oil-soaked. I've been giving away my coins for many years to a group of kids, and these are all I have left from that 1000-count "uncirculated bag," representing only the ones I subjected to cleaning. Every single coin in both piles looks like the representative samples (the '55s and '57-Ds) I posted in that other thread. I simply put these all away when I got finished, then took them out, a decade or so later. As I said in that other thread, I know all these coins had cartwheel luster, to one degree or another, when I started. Heck, that's why I bought the "uncirculated bag," in the first place (figured I can't lose, they at least had that).

Wish I could answer the rest of your questions relative to what I did and didn't do but just don't have the data available. Brad had a good point, because I didn't rinse the oil-soaked coins in anything but warm, running water (after having had soaked them for a day or so in water to dilute most of the oil off), so, maybe you might have different long-term results if you use a compound that can get all the oil off. I thought I had got all the oil off. Maybe I didn't. Could be whatever micro-organisms or impurities that may have been on the coins reacted with the oil that adhered to "flatten" those surfaces out. All in all, though, I do take this as a glimpse into what the surfaces of coins soaked long-term in oil are going to end up looking like, sooner or later. Just how I feel about that, now.

 

you obviously havent seen the inside of Harvey teeth :hammer: come here with your 6 fig coins and ill prove my verdigris is alive theory. its almost like that Michael Crichton novel . no seriously 0% humidity is hard to achieve in some places. as far as te results of ur experiment i am waiting to see how the coin looks like in 2010

 

BEAUTIFUL explaination!

 

Boss, you are a man of excellent character.

 

both of u guys do me a favor and perfect the lacquering business before its too late. there is literally a fortune on the line here

 

Well, I thank all of you especially Thad and Jim. I needed the scientific proof to back up what GD and Eddiespin were saying was true in based on their experiences. Those picks really helped tip me over the edge Eddie. I will still oil, only temporary to remove grime/verdigris but will thoroughly remove with acetone or xylene. I have never used xylene until this weekend, and this stuff smells terrible and really dry's my hands. I even bought MEK- which Oldtrader off the NGC boards recommends all the time. That stuff is really strong and removes toning, so I won't use much unless I think coin needs it. Does acetone really not remove oil? When I have used it previously to do so, it seemed all the mineral oil got off to me. I can't stand this xylene stuff.
Anyway, already bathed a bunk a coins with 2-3 dips then DS water and back in IS or air-tites. I have one by one crack out the coins with the light mineral oil and resubmit. Can't spend all that money at once and it's just plain too depressing. YES DOUG you were RIGHT:hug:. I admit it. I might have got there quicker with less authority and more details as to why. I think my reasoning was scientific and on the right track, but not exactly correct as our chemists have pointed out. That unbound sulfur is too scary for me to let get on the coins. I wonder too if the luster got killed on Eddie's coins as the oil hardens over time and fills in the flowlines? Just a theories. I wonder if Eddie tried to remove the oil now? I am assuming Eddie removed the oil after seeing the dulled out luster. If not maybe you could and rephoto if they look different.
Thanks for everyone's help. I have a lot of bath's to give:goofer:

 

er before u start celebrating with GD dont forget to post on the laquered stuff : also i break my finger naills oening airites is there a good way to do it ?

 

Boss, that xylene/xylol (a.k.a., paint stripper) will make you "punchy," if you're not very well-ventilated. Just ask any house painter. So, be careful! I've used it on stubborn Indians, though, it does have it's uses. Good luck!

 

Yes, GD, I understand your point. I am one of those question everything sort of dudes. My reasoning was sound, except for lacking the knowledge that sulfur is unbound within the oil and free to react, as well as the photos helped. Be that as it may, I will try and trust the "elder board of Coin Talk". Anyways, I love this site and I appreciate people taking time to answer my questions. This has saved time, heartache and MORE lost money than I have already lost. This is an expensive hobby for me!

 

My wife said I was "high" last night from my xylene party for my coins. I was really hyper and looked in the mirror and and you could have landed a plane on my pupils. Also, I use my hands as I am afraid that the plastic tongs are going to melt into the stuff and get on the coin?? This was answered on another post sort of??? I moved this action to the garage by I am so afraid of a more dirty environment and dropping coins on a non carpeted area. I have dropped coins, and dinged them!! Can you use plastic tongs and gloves with this stuff. I have been using my bare hands for the same reason as the tongs but my hands are getting fried. I also used MEK and that stuff is crazy strong.

Spock: too tired to start another post. Maybe next week. RLM said to heat the xylene (I did 10-30 seconds in microwave in glass cup). Seemed to speed up stuff. I have several coins I have soaked 30+ hours with 50% reduction but still have lacquer on. I am assuming you have some expensive lacquered coins. I do as well, but not totally more than $500 which really stinks. Every coin that I have removed (no complete removal yet), all have problems. Tricked by ebay photos and didn't know til later. Spock- I am lost here. Remove and see how messed up the coins are, relacquer and sell (not nice), relacquer and keep in denial of their true identity, or remove completely somehow?? and let tone ove the next 10 years and how the dings, scratches fill in more attractively?? I don't know the answer.:rolling:

 

Thanks Thad :high5::high5::high5:

 

I would highly recommend that you heat water in the microwave and use the water to heat the xylene. Also, remember that makes it more volatile.

 

you should give up the bottle. you have started making wild guesses now now u may not know much about king spock but u certainly are an expert if there was one on coins

 

practise with tongs before u start using it on the exp stuff. also gloves are not good for holding coins although i like it wellt he coins i am talkign about are heritage coins what we could call ultra rarities if they were us coins. its enough to give u a headache. i used to buy 4 fig coins all the time i would not buy polished or lacquered coins that would be stupid. but for coins that someone else ruined and an NCS fix is not possible it does encourage me to look for solutions to experiment