Rome always had a grudge against Macedonia. In hind sight it was probably an inferiority complex... A complex that was the size of Alexander the great's empire. (Actual size of Rome's inferiority complex of the Macedonians) The Romans’ relished their battles with Pyrrhus. As these were the closest engagements as they would have with Alexander. As much as I love Pyrrhus, we must remember that his campaigns were with fought mercenaries and not the grizzled veterans and generals that Alexander had inherited from his father, Philip II, the first unified ruler of Greece and King of Europe. What if ATG had gone West instead of East? I suppose first you would have to ask why would he head out to trample a bunch of illiterate farmers that had just gotten rid of their last King less then 175 years before Alexander exploded onto Persian soil with a symbolic javelins throw from his ship? As well as lack of motive to go to Rome, Alexander had some of the best motivators of men that a leader could ask for already built into the Persian campaign. More money than they could carry. More lands then they could occupy. And the reason stated again and again by the sources, retribution for what Persia had done to them and their forefathers (funny enough within a decade of the Romans chasing out their last King the Persian war was underway). And as added incentive, Xenophon had recently (370 BCE) written his book about the 10,000 Greek mercenaries whom marched in and out of Persia showing that gold and silver laden fruit was ripe for the picking. (The path blazed by Xenophon and the 10,000 mercenaries hired by Cyrus the younger and then left to die far off in a foreign land) Getting past the lack of reasons that I can think of (please let me know if you can think of plausible reasons for Alexander to march West to Rome) the Romans where just to much in they're infancy to put up the fight that would've avoided them being one more conquered land of the great one. Greatness himself aside, once Rome started picking off the descendents of the diadochi (Seleucids, Makedon and finally the Ptolemies) it was clear they would make provinces of all of em, through just means or not. In the end, despite some last gasps from Philip V and Perseus, Rome won out and dived macedon into 4 client republics governed by Rome. During this time and after Macedon would still produce some really fun and popular coins: Roman Republican Period 167-165 B.C. Æ Unit. 22 mm. 9.43 grams. Obverse: Facing mask of Silenos with pointed ears, wearing ivy wreath. Reverse: MAKE / ΔΟΝΩΝ in two lines within oak wreath. SNG Copenhagen 1324-6; MacKay pl. III, 10; Touratsoglou, Macedonia 25.Very Fine. Dark earthen patina Very little is known about this attractive and interesting type. Originally attributed as an issue of the Roman D. Julius Silanus, more recent scholarship, particularly hoard analyses, have proved this untenable. The period to which it now belongs was marked by turmoil caused largely by various barbarian invasions, and coin production was sporadic at all of the Macedonian mints, and probably related to military activity. The Silenos type and oak wreaths were common local motifs used on coins in the Thraco-Macedonian region. This one was minted during or directly after a little, and the final, skirmish called the 4th Macedonian war: Roman Republican Period Macedonia, Roman Protectorate. Ca. 148-147 B.C. Æ (21 mm, 10.36 g, 12 h). Gaius Publilius, quaestor. Helmeted head of Athena right / MAKEΔONΩN above TAMIOY ΓAIOY/ΠOΠΛIΛIOY in two lines; mongrams above and bleow; all within oak-wreath. MacKay pl. III, 1; SNG Copenhagen 1318. Former: Savoca Even into the imperial Period Macedon was "mak"ing fun Coinage: Tiberius 14 – 37 Bronze, uncertain mint in Macedonia (Philippi ?), Æ 4.49 g. Bare head r. Rev. Two priests ploughing with yoke of oxen. BMC 89. RPC 1657. Green patina and good very fine Macedon. Koinon of Macedon. Claudius AD41-54. Bronze Æ 23mm., 9,79g. nearly very fine My latest win, from AMCC2 is of a coin I've sought ever since @Alegandron posted his beauty, shows the vindictive side of Rome after the wars as they trample the shield of the Macedonians: T. Quinctius Flamininus, 126 BCE, AR denarius. Rome, 3.91g, 18mm. Obv: Helmeted bust of Roma right; flamen's cap behind; XVI ligate below chin Rev: The Dioscuri riding right, each holding a couched lance, stars above; Macedonian shield between T-Q below; ROMA in exergue. Crawford 267/1 The key feature of the type – the Macedonian shield on the reverse – is very clear on this example. Issued by a descendant of the more famous Flamininus, a philhellene who prosecuted the second Macedonian War against Philip V and proclaimed freedom for Greece. Ex: AMCC 2 consigned by Caesar_Augustus Please post your Macedonians, Roman republic, Maco/Romano coins, thoughts or anything you've got.
Fonteius Capito, moneyer Roman Republic Denarius 4.1g Rome 55BC P FONTEIVS P CAPITO III VIR bust Mars right, trophy behind. MN FONT TR MIL above warrior on horseback thrusting spear at Gaulish enemy attacking another. Helmet and shield below on right. Syd 990; BMC 3851
@Ryro , I really enjoy the PASSION you have for Makedon and this period in History. The friction between Makedon and Rome at this time demonstrates a lot of fun and interesting history. NICE JOB on the Flamininus Denarius, Dude! Well done! (Yeah, that is why I like to toss crap your way in several posts... just all in fun!) I am always amazed at how much money I have expended because I saw cool coins that folks have posted here! I am glad my kids are all grown and gone from the home, or I would be taking food from their mouths! Here is my scruffy version, glad it inspired your successful search for one! RR T Quinctius Flamininus 126 BC AR Den Roma Diosc gallpng T-Q Macedon Shield Sear 143 Craw 267-1 Had Alexander III NOT died prematurely in Babylon, I know he would had cast his eyes to the West to go after Rome and Carthage... yeah, I am positive. LIFETIME ALEXANDRINE IN BABYLON: Makedon Alexander - Alexandrine Babylon Di-Shekel Tet LIFETIME 328-311 Baal-Lion And, hey, I just HAVE to blast out with this one: Makedon as the Roman Province of Macedonia: Roman Republic Province of Macedonia Thessalonika Mint Quaestor Aesillas (BC 90-70) AR Tetradrachm 28 mm x 16.50 grams Obverse: Flowing hair bust of Alexander the Great, Greek legend, MAKEDONWN (Macedonians) TH mint mark behind bust Reverse: Club of Hercules center, Coin Chest left field, Quaestor's chair right field. Surround be a wreath. Ref:BMC 81-83; Dewing 1224-1225 COMMENTS: This coin is a bit strange. It bears legends in two different languages. On the obverse Makedonon ("Of the Makedonians") is written in Greek letters while the reverse features the Latin word Aesillas - the Quester in Roman Macedonia. King Mithradates VI of Pontos started to establish an empire of its own in the east. When he attempted to conquer Cappadocia, he came into conflict with another ruler of the east, King Nicomedes IV of Bithynia. Nicomedes asked the Romans for help. The Romans wanted to increase their presence in Asia Minor. Yeah, Imperator / Dictator Sulla saw his opportunity during the First Mithridatic War! The Romans had to secure supplies. Therefore the Via Egnatia (Roman road) through Thrace and to Asia needed to be secure. The Via Egnatia was arguably the most important strategic route connecting the West and the East. In the first century, a major part of the Via Egnatia crossed areas on which the belligerent tribes of Thrace had some influence. The Romans needed to ensure the Thracians as allies. The Romans were no dummies. They knew that they could just buy the Thracians support. So, they paid the Thracians for staying put and not to harrass the Roman Legions or their supply route. The Romans created the coins in such a way that they could be readily accepted by the Thracians. Since the time of their King Lysimachus, between 305 and 281 BC, the Thracians were used to circulating coins that bore the portrait of Alexander the Great. Therefore, the Romans depicted Alexander with flowing hair and the horn of Ammon. During the time of Aesillas the Via Egnatia allowed the Romans to transport troops, supplies, and money. Mithradates fate was sealed. In 63 BC, the Roman general Pompey cornered him during the Third Mithradatic War. Mithradates saw no other way than to take his own life. Placating the Thracians with payments in generally accepted Alexander coinage enabled troops and arms to freely move from Rome to Asia. The Romans became the unchallenged masters of Asia Minor.
Great coins @Ryro and as usual a fun write up. I wonder what would have happened if Alexander lived until the time of Pyrrhos and he would have joined the expedition into Rome. I think in 323 BC, Rome was not such a threat yet and Alexander wouldn't have bothered to go there. But later on, who knows... I also think the biggest downfall of the diadochi and all the other Greek city states is that they were constantly fighting eachother, so much resources and unity lost. All Rome had to do is look and watch and then pick up the fruit afterwards without too much problems. Here is a Macedonian coin minted during the late reign of the Antigonid dynasty: Kingdom of Macedon. temp. Philip V – Perseus. 187-168 BC. Serrate Æ. Amphipolis mint. Obverse: Diademed head of Poseidon right. Reverse: ΜΑΚΕ-ΔΟΝΩΝ. Club; one monogram below and above; all within wreath. Reference: AMNG 48; SNG Cop. -, vergl. 1297; Hoover 328. 10.75g; 25mm
@Ryro - your posts and coins are consistently interesting and entertaining! This coin seems in keeping with your OP : the key feature of the type – the Macedonian shield on the reverse. Not to mention that the type celebrates Q. Caecilius Metellus Macedonicus, father of the moneyer. In 148 Q. Caecilius Metellus crushed the pretender to the Macedonian throne, Philip "Andriscus," who had managed in the previous year or two not only to establish his authority in Macedonia itself (where in 167 the Roman-imposed republican system had replaced the ancient monarchy) but even to make incursions into Thessaly. Metellus proceeded to pacify the area, removing another pretender in the process, and in 146 (probably) returned to Rome to a well-deserved triumph and the triumphal cognomen Macedonicus. - Kallet-Marx, Robert. Hegemony to Empire: The Development of the Roman Imperium in the East from 148 to 62 B.C. Berkeley, University of California Press, 1995 M. Caecilius Q.f. Q.n. Metellus, 127 BC, AR Denarius, Rome mint Obv: Helmeted head of Roma right, ROMA upward behind; mark of value below chin Rev: M.METELLVS.Q.F. around Macedonian shield with elephant's head in central boss, surrounded by laurel wreath Ref: Crawford 263/1a; Sydenham 480; Caecilia 29
From a few years before ATG: MACEDON, Tragilos AR Hemiobol 450-410 B.C. 0.30 grams, 7 mm. Obv: Simple ear of grain surrounded by beaded border Rev: T R I A in the quarters of an inverse relief square. Grade: Exceptionally nice. Much better than the average EF with attractive toning. And here is another before ATG: MAKEDONIAN KINGDOM Perdikkas II AR Light Tetrobol 454-413 B.C. Unknown weight, 15 mm. Obv: Horse pacing right Rev: Crested helmet right & single linear square within shallow incuse square. Grade: overall a Very Fine coin in an ANACS holder. The obverse is better than the reverse. The gF reverse is not centered like the obverse. Other: Perdikkas was the son & successor of Alexander I. He was instrumental in the formation of the Chalkidian League. Raymond 143,
Thanks for all the BEAuuuutiful coins and kind words my CT fam. Great coin and point @Nathan401. The Romans were equally great at hyperbolizing their enemies as they were demonizing them. Here's another RR of them facing "barbarians" but here they make them look like heroes so the propaganda didn't show big guys picking on little guys: @Alegandron! I doubt I'm as passionate for the Greeks as they would be for me but you're correct, this is an absolutely gobsmackingly fascinating period in recorded human affairs! And D@mn€d you for posting that RR Alexander in 2 different languages Again! It's already a must have on my list (despite being one of the most cost prohibitive coins on my list). If my wife had any idea of the influence your collection was on our budget she would assuredly make me block you're postings Good point that if Alexander made it back home he would've certainly gone to consolidate the West (or sent a general to do it for him while he lived up the wild and debached Persian lifestyle he'd created for himself). PS, I'm always self conscious of my usage of the words Macedon, Macedonian, Makedon etc. How do you decide? Coincides always abound with geniuses @ominus1 ... Or as an old buddy used to remind me, fools rarely differ You know I LOVE me some Pyrrhos my man, @Pavlos or should I say Pyrrvlhos?!! I was recently listening on audible to Pyrrhus of Epirus by Charles Rivers editors, and they state that Pyrrhus was Olympia's brother's half son or something to the effect that he would've been a cousin of Alexander. If true pretty sensational stuff Speaking off sensational, I'm a huge fan of that coin type. And boy-O yours is in great condition. Here's my humble example: Keeps with it and then some, @Sulla80. Yours is a near RR masterpiece and blows mine outta the water Just like @Collect89's does my lil friend! And I waited around for mine. You just don't see this type (or very many of the really tiny types with the kind of artistry in the kind of condition that collect 89 has) around very often. And for funsies a bonus RR coin of Makedon that I didn't have room for in the initial post:
Hmmm... I finally decided and understand that 'C' in LATIN is the hard 'K' sound as we know it today. The Greek world spelled Makedon with a 'K', and phoenetically sounded it that way. Today we seem to pronounce Makedon, Macedonia with an 'S'. I think that is wrong and insulting to these great people when we corrupt their name. I understand the 'ia' is after a country name in Latin. And, the Greek 'wn' (omega nu) (pronounced like "own") after the the country name means more like "of the". So, Greek MAKEDONWN ( the w actually being an Omega) is "of the Makedons". Similarly, early Republic coinage had ROMANO on their coins meaning "of the Romans", instead of ROMA. Soooo.... with MY silly logic: - Makedon is the spelling when the country were their own, under their kings and governments of Makedon. - Macedonia is when Rome conquered and ruled them. It helps me sort my Ancient coins from this area. When was in University, (that is when God was a Lad), someone from the Classic Language department had told me that the Makedons had a different dialect than the other Greeks. (Hence, the Greeks felt the Makedons were on the edge of Barbarism...). I understand that the Makedons pronounced the 'X' more as a 'G' sound...hence my Avatar name. How 'bout I toss out a GOAT after all this silly blathering? THRACO-MAKEDON TRIBES- MYGDONES or KRESTONES 480-470 BCE AR Obol 0.79g 11mm Goat Quadripartite incuse square AMNG III 14
Glad to see your awesome new denarius earn the avatar spot, @Ryro! Here's my example, with sweet toning but definitely not as nice a shield: Interested to hear more about this dating. I have mine catalogued as c. 168-167 BCE, just after the final defeat of Perseus. Has this issue been rethought? (I haven't looked into it much at all...)
Here's one that was used by Perseus of Macedon to pay for mercenaries in the Third Macedonian War. One of my former favorites. (CT forum member provenance: @AncientJoe > @lordmarcovan > @kazuma78)
Excellent toning on the ar and fantastic detail on the bronze! Great point. When checking AC search I found a 70/30% split, the majority sitting 168-167. There are also alternate reverses with grazing cattle and sheep. Most of those with the 148-147 time frame. However, with so many also sitting the later year and both having the same quaestor's name attached makes me think there is an answer, I just need time away from work to find it. Haha. And what's up with Rome keeping with the hero Perseus image on the coins? Just their way of reminding the now Macedonians (thanks for the clarification Gandy) of the defeat of their last King I suppose. Here's one before the final take over. Perseus (179-168 BC).Bronze. Pella or Amphipolis.Vs: Head of Perseus with Phrygian helmet and Harpaover the shoulder right.Rs: B-A. Eagle on lightning bundles standing to the left, head turned right; In the field left monogram, in the section Sigma. 19 mm. 6.01 g.HGC 3, 1099. rare
And I LOVE that merc coin! The toning looks like it is out of a dream and the history behind it is fascinating
I miss it. But it's in good hands with @kazuma78 now, and it paid some bills. Was a joy to own it for a time. It was in my top three favorites (and the other two weren't ancient).
So, let me get this straight. Cause if true, would mean you have the raddest name on CT. You believe that the ancient people of Makedon would’ve pronounced Alexander phonetically, Alegandron? And that is where you got your CT handle from?? And if so...
Alegandroy. For some reason, someone had it...and this was 40 years ago. If you imagine the ‘n’ upside down, you would have the ‘y’ without the tail. OR, the Greek nu lowercase symbol is a modern ‘y’ without the lower tail. Used a little creative thinking...
I just posted some Macadonian coins, but here is an old one of mine that I'm kind of fond of... Macedonian Kingdom , Philip V or Perseus 187 - 168 B.C. AE double unit, SNG Cop 1307 o: laureate head of Zeus right r: ΜΑ−ΚΕ/∆ΟΝ−ΩΝ, winged thunderbolt, TB monogram below 23 mm, 7.6g
