Roman Silver Denarius - need help in identifying these

My personal thoughts on this thread and the tone of (some of) the responses to it:

It's entirely understandable and natural for anyone who comes into possession of an ancient coin to wonder "How much is this worth?" If the only information sought by the poster is the value of his/her coin, that's a completely legitimate curiosity and deserves to be treated as such. The Internet, and especially sites like this one, are excellent places to ask that question and get both knowledgeable responses as well as thoughtless, off-topic, nasty responses.

By assuming that the original poster was genuine and sincere in his/her topic, you can provide helpful information and at the very least make that person feel as if he's been treated with some respect. If the topic or tone of the writer bothers you, there is no requirement to post a response -- don't feel compelled to inject yourself and your viewpoint into every thread that is started. Start your own thread if you want attention on a topic, don't hijack another's genuine interest.

And finally, always remember the old adage "It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

 

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I only used my phone's camera plus the lighting didn't help I guess! I'll try to provide a better photo! Thanks for the insight!

 

In general, I like to make other's feel welcome to CT and hope to spark more interest in the historical aspect of coin collecting. And, to be honest, I think I always wonder when I buy a coin, how much is this coin really worth and am I getting a good deal. I expect no less from a non-collector.

 

Stevex is usually very congenial and friendly. Maybe he was in a bad mood last night. Maybe his wife told him to quit buying coins and start paying bills. I hate when that happens. :veryangry:

 

Jerry's a good guy. Must have swallowed a coin. Yeah, that's it. He swallowed one of his Tets

 

Thanks coin007 ... you seem like an alright fella!!


:high5:

 

I hope this is a bit clearer as this is the best I could come up with for now. What do you think? Thanks in advance!

 

The second coin is Severus Alexander, but I'm trying to read the legend on the reverse of the second coin. I think it reads: PM TR P VIIII COS III PP. Can you confirm?

 

Also, please type in the obverse legend on the Sep Severus.

 

Sorry for the very late reply as I got real busy. The reverse of the Severus Alexander I find difficult to read, but from what I can gather the left portion reads PROVIDE but the right portion I can barely understand.

For the Obverse legend on the Sep Severus, it reads L SEPT SEV PERT AVG IMP VIIII. Not sure if I read it correctly though.

 

I am not so sure CNGs coins are overpriced. It is a question of what one will pay for high quality. Here is a thought experiment. Suppose a hoard of 1000 similar coins shows up and some of the coins are more worn than others, some are better struck than others, some are from fresh dies of really good style. Now suppose one or two combine all the good features and are the best of the hoard, but many of the other coins are very fine or EF too, say (for sake of argument) worth $50 to $150 respectively. Suppose you are in a highly-paid profession and earn hundreds of dollars an hour. What would you pay for the best of the best, given you know how unusual they are? Do you think the owner of the hoard might think $175 is not enough premium over $150. How about $300? $500? Would you work 2 hours for the money to own a truly superb coin?
Now I return to considering CNG. Not all of their coins are the best of the best, but many are really super. Many of us are, and have to be, very satisfied with similar types but lesser, or much lesser, coins. Maybe some of us don't appreciate how much premium high end coins get. Maybe we see what CNG asks (and gets) and feel something similar could be found for less. "Similar", yes. As good or better, probably not. Next time you think CNG is charging too much, see if you can find an *equal or better* coin for that price. If you can find a coin *nearly as good* for far less and the coins pleases you, fine. But they are people out there who want the better coin and are willing to pay much more for it.
I do not deny that some major firms overprice coins. I do not deny that some may ask double the price at which you could obtain an equal or better example. But CNG is near the top of the food chain and many of their coins are near the best and it is not so easy to duplicate the quality. I look at their fixed-price offerings early in the morning of the day they are posted on-line and in spite of "high" prices many are already sold. It is because of that last tiny bit of amazing quality that most of us won't pay for.
Go to a minor coin show in England and you may well see cigar boxes full of low grade sestertii. Boxes full of mid grade late Roman AE. Large numbers of radiates. Because the supply is really quite large they allow an affordable price level for genuine ancient coins that are not superb. The very small fraction of coins which are high grade work their way up the food chain until they reach CNG and a few other firms.
I consider a valuable coin overpriced when it is likely you could find within a month or two another one *as good or better* at, say, 60-70% of the price (I am not considering $20 coins, rather several-hundred-dollar coins). For very many CNG coins, fixed-price and auction coins, you could easily find the type in lesser condition. You might even already own one in lesser condition. But CNG is dealing with that upper end where small differences in quality are very significant (maybe not to us, but to their buyers) and a little bit lesser condition is a lot less expensive. When one realizes that, CNGs coins no longer seem overpriced.

 

I'm 100% in agreement with this logic and analysis. CNG's shop offers generally superb coins -- especially their aurei and denarii -- and in almost all cases, those coins justify the premium being asked. There are some collectors who are willing to pay 2x - 3x the price of an "almost EF" coin in order to own a true "EF" coin, even if the difference in grade seems slight.

In fact, I think many of CNG's coins (offered in their shop) are actually bargains compared to prices that equivalent coins will fetch at high-profile auctions such as NAC, Triton, etc.

I've browsed through almost every vendor/coin dealer on VCoins, and while there are many good low-priced coins available there, CNG is the place to look if you want to purchase high-end coins directly, rather than at auction. My Titus denarius (below) was purchased there, and I have not seen a significantly better coin at any auction (although to be fair, there have been a number of auctions that offered equivalently high-grade Titus denarii).



By the way, I'm not associated in any way with CNG, so this is completely my own opinion and observation about them. I just believe in giving credit where credit is due.

 

I know you are mostly correct about dealers and auction houses similar to CNG. Where I have a problem with these dealers is the charge on both ends of the deal. I know they have to make money to stay in business, and I don't begrudge them that. But to charge a listing fee to the seller, a buying fee to the buyer, and then a shipping and handling fee on top of it all seems, well, rather wrong in my mind. Don't get me wrong. I have purchased from CNG and other high end sellers. But it does gall me when I think of the charges associated with the transaction

 

I see a greater problem with overpricing among smaller dealers who sell their half as good coins for a slight discount of a CNG price. In some cases their coin may be equally good but they are not providing the comfort a beginner (defined as up to a person of my level) gets from dealing with a fully capable firm or the ease of finding a good enough coin without searching through a thousand junkers on eBay or other sources that sell 'all grades'. In most cases they figure that CNG gets $1000 for a coin so they should get $500 for one half as nice while the real offset is probably more like $200. Perfect cost ten times 'sort-of-nice' not double. Certainly I value the opinion and integrity of many smaller dealers equally to CNG and the big boys of their ilk but just having a shop on VCoins does not make you a big boy. I buy 90% of my coins from a handful of these trusted sources and you will each develop a feel for who sells what you want for what you will pay. Go slow when saying a dealer overcharges until you have compared not only the coins but all the intangibles. Even consider being like me and buying something every so often from a dealer you want to see stay in business even if it costs you 10% extra. I get 10% value from dealers who share their listings with acsearch, Wildwinds and other resources. I doubt my couple CNG purchases a year keeps them in business but they make me feel better about all the benefits I get out of their continued existence.

 

While it's true that CNG's auctions have this double fee structure, this isn't necessarily true of their coin shop. I know (for a fact) that it's possible to negotiate with ANY dealer on the price they're asking for a coin in their inventory, so if you see a coin that a dealer's holding in his/her inventory, you're always free to offer a price you feel is more appropriate.

Such negotiation isn't possible on auctioned coins, of course, but that's the tradeoff you make for trying to buy a coin at auction for a bargain price vs. buying a dealer's inventory coin where the dealer is taking the risk that the coin won't fetch enough of a premium to pay back its carrying costs.

 

Well put. I have recently been accepted on two of my last three offers on coins when my offer was 25% off. That suggests to me I am offering too much. When we bid or make offers we need to decide how much the coin is worth to us. I recently saw a coin at auction that had just a month ago been listed at fixed price on a VCoin shop. It ended up bringing more in the auction than the old asking price and the buyer had to pay 12% additional fees as well. Perhaps this was a case of auction fever. The fact remains that auction estimates and fixed price asking prices are just numbers. Pay what you want to pay and walk away when you need to shop another day. In my last example, I wondered if I did the right thing not buying the coin when it was on VCoins but the one I'm getting now (Post Office willing) looks better to me. Sometimes we may walk away from the only coin of the type we will ever see but deciding which case applies each time is the name of the game.

 

you guys are so the greatest

 

Since CNG is being discussed, i will say one thing about my experiences with them. I have never received a coin from them and been even mildly disappointed. I do not think I can say that about any other place I have bought from except maybe Frank Robinson. Their coins always meet or beat expectations, with is worth a lot to me.

 

For years I was disappointed in the artistic style of CNG's coins. I believe they attracted such things as lack of wear and good surfaces but did not seek out coins with good die work. I always preferred good style in a Fine to poor workmanship in an EF. That is a minority opinion. This has improved and worsened over the years more than once so I suspect it depended on who worked there at the time. Their photos have always been fair to the coin and to the buyer at least in black and white. Since they stopped sending me catalogs in 2003, I have bought few coins there.