Roman Republic Anonymous Denarius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Orange Julius, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    Hi all,
    So... on a whim, I recently bought this beat-up RR anonymous denarius. In the seller's photo it looked ok... but in hand I can't quite tell if the blemishes are covering a porous coin (indicating a cast) or if it's just been abused.

    The edges look good but there are so many scratches... if there was a casing seam, It may be obscured.

    I usually don't gamble on questionable coins... but every now and then, I get bored. Luckily, It wasn't expensive. So either I have a placeholder giving me buyer's remorse or I have a return to make. If authentic... I guess I'm happy with it as a placeholder for now as I don't have one of these and don't see myself buying a nice one in the near future.

    The weight's good at 3.65g.

    So my questions for the group are...'
    1. What do you think? Beat-up but authentic or beat-up cast to look authentic?
    2. I'm having a bit of trouble getting attributing it.... I've been pouring over the following page: http://stevebrinkman.ancients.info/anonymous/ I'm hoping one of our RR experts can walk me through the minor details in getting an exact attribution for Anonymous denarii.
    And if you're just here to pile on... let's see your anonymous denarii!!

    RRAnon.JPG
    RREdge.jpg
     
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  3. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Looks real to me, let's see what others say.
     
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  4. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    Completely authentic
     
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  5. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Sometimes we buy coins that are more than just questionable just because they are interesting. Mine was $6 and billed as a fourree core. Most fourrees of the period were foil process and this one was not. I really don't know what is the exact status of my coin. Fake, certainly; old, maybe. I'd tend to accept yours as just having had a hard life but we get gun shy from all the fakes that are beat up to make them look authentic and old.
    r10550bb0383.jpg
     
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  6. Carthago

    Carthago Does this look infected to you?

    It's a CR 53/2, which is a very common type but has lots of stylistic variations as defined by Brinkman. I would say yours is a Brinkman Group 3 type. His description is:

    "The horses on the group 3 dies are larger and appear closer to the viewer. The hind legs are always in a crouched pose with the hock bent further to the left than any other part of the leg. The tail between the horses is nearly always present and in the form of several horizontal "hatched" lines."

    Obverse: Two raised lines over visor. Tufts on the back of the helmet very close together.

    Reverse: The word ROMA in a trapezoidal frame with the bottom line shorter than the top line, and angled lines connecting the top and bottom. The angled lines are often hidden on off-center coins. Horseman’s cape is of the “streaming” style. There is an interesting extra horse’s tail in the form of several short paralell horizontal lines extending between the pairs of horse’s hind legs.

    Distinguishing Characteristics:

    1. Reverse legend ROMA in trapezoidal frame
    2. Extra horse’s tail of several short paralell horizontal lines
    3. Tufts on back of helmet are close together
    4. “Streaming” style cape

    More can be found here with example: http://stevebrinkman.ancients.info/anonymous/#H53-2-X-14
     
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  7. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    Thanks all for weighing in! An extra thanks to @Carthago for the extra details. I'm going to dive into that information now and learn what I can... before I fall asleep with cat on my lap and the TV blaring.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
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  8. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    @Orange Julius Your coin is almost certainly authentic and @Carthago picked the right variety. Groups 0, 1, 2, and 3 are the earliest of the peaked visor anonymous RRC 53/2 coins. They all share the trapezoidal frame and they are less common than most of the later groups. Here is my example of your variety:
    53-2-A2-NAC92-3.97g.jpg
     
  9. Carthago

    Carthago Does this look infected to you?

    A fabulous example Fugio has! Since we're sharing 53/2's, here are mine.

    Anonymous Denarius After 211 BC 53-2 Auctiones 11-2012.jpg Anonymous Denarius After 211 BC 53-2 Roma 9-2012.jpg

    It's also worth noting the 53/2 is often used as a catch all for anonymous denarii, either from lazy cataloguing or simple mistakes. Here are a couple of coins I've purchased as 53/2's which were not. I get how the Cr 198 could be confused, but never the Cr. 75.

    Anonymous AR Denarius, 3.93g (3.93g, 18.7mm, 4h). Head of Roma r. wearing helmet and with X behind head / The Dioscuri on galloping horses holding spears and with stars above their heads. Below exergual line, ROMA. Crawford 198/1

    Anonymous Denarius 198-1 Shanna Schmidt 2017.jpg


    C. AL. 209-208 BC. Denarius AR (4.57g, 19.6mm, 8h), Sicily. Helmeted head of Roma to right; behind, X. Rev. The Dioscuri galloping to right; below, in linear frame, ROMA in relief. Likely part of the C. AL series but without magistrates initials below Dioscuri. Crawford 75/1c. Sydenham 198 variant. Aelia 2.

    Likely Adolph Cahn and Adolph Hess Nachf., Haeberlin Collection, July 17, 1933, lot 94 (4.59g Vorziiglich Feiner Stil). Noted as " Von Sarti, Rom erworben" sold to Cahn (12 - 8 RM).

    C AL 75-1c Nomos 2017.jpg
     
  10. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Here is my very modest Anonymous AR Denarius... it's my first coin of the Republic...so it's a start.

    RepublicMERGE.jpg
     
  11. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    ANONYMOUS ROMAN REPUBLICAN 2.jpg
    ANONYMOUS ROMAN REPUBLIC
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: Helmeted head of Roma right; behind, X
    REVERSE: The Dioscuri galloping right; in exergue, ROMΛ in raised letters within linear frame
    Struck at Rome 214-213 BC
    19.8mm, 3.45g
    Crawford 46/1(b)
     
  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    upload_2019-1-30_5-49-53.png
    RR Anon AR denarius Roma 211-206 BCE ROMA incus Dioscuri single horn-helmet Sear-- Craw 68-1b SICILY ISSUE RARE
     
  13. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    Of the early anonymous denarius issues, the most commonly seen are the early RRC 44/5 with splayed visor, believed to be the earliest denari, and RRC 53/2 with peaked visor, a few years later. When attributing anonymous denari, it is often good to exclude these two large groups because most likely these are what you have. Style is the main determining factor and Crawford used style to differentiate these issues in RRC but because style is usually difficult to articulate, we look for key ornamental givaways.

    @Clavdivs your example is of the somewhat more scarce anonymous variation of the dolphin series, RRC 80/1b. For this issue, the 4+ hair locks (instead of 3 for most 53/2 varieties) and the cape style suggest this is Cr. 80.
    Here is mine:
    80-1b-o-r.jpg

    @Bing, Your example is attributed correctly as RRC 46/1. All 46/1's are difficult to find and are very scarce, but your variety 46/1(b) is just plain rare. The cape style is characteristic for all 46/1 variations. Unfortunately the 46/1(b) 3 pendant earring appears to be obscured on your coin by the flan crack but the obverse style is unmistakable.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  14. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the information @Fugio1 .. I appreciate it! And that is a beautiful coin.
     
  15. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    @Carthago the examples you cite in your post are great examples. The first one is the notoriously difficult to attribute 53/2 group 8. Crawford's plate X.19 shows this variety with an extended helmet visor, but this visor feature is actually found in few examples of this variety. The most consistent recognizable characteristic (other than subjective style) is the font! These always have a very tall X and a reverse "ROMA" both executed with very fine lines. No die links have been found between this and group 9 which is nearly identical suggesting a separate mint workshop.
    53.28_Insta45_386g.jpg

    Your Cr. 198 is also just about perfect. These need to be well centered because the upper point on the cape is the most defining characteristic. Although they are quite common, I've yet to find one this nice for my own collection.
     
  16. Michael Stolt

    Michael Stolt Well-Known Member

    I love the 53 series and will probably try and collect all sub groups, so far I have a group one and a group four.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

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