Roman Provincial ID Help Needed - Elagabalus & Nude Guy

This one really has me stumped. I am pretty sure it is Elagabalus or Caracalla. Most of the obverse legend is visible and the portrait seems to fit.

The reverse has me stumped - a nude guy striding left wearing only a chalmys? I am not sure what he is holding - at first I thought I lucked into a Priapus, but the anatomy seems off for that. Apollo with a lyre? Ares? Dionysius?

The reverse inscription (sorry for my lousy photos) gives a frustrating clue - to the right of the figure it reads: ΓƐΡΜΑΝΙ... RPC online had several hits for this legend from Germanica in Bithynia and Cappadocia, Cilicia, etc. But I cannot find anything that matches the nude guy.

It is 18 mm and 3.57 grams. Sorry about the poor photo - it is overcast today (and so I blame the sun for my lousy photos). Any help much appreciated.

 

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If it is really a nude man, ISEGRIM suggests Herakles or Hermes.

http://isegrim.mybluemix.net/#!?m=AE&rs=GERMAN&vt=PORTRAIT MAN R&rt=man

ISEGRIM suggested something I hadn't thought of, that the reverse inscription could name Germanicus.

 

Thanks Ed - I appreciate the suggestion. I've been searching Hermes and Herakles, but I haven't had any luck - although there are so many types, I'm sure I just scratched the surface. There are Provincial "athlete" types that look similar too. Or to the right of the figure is that a lyre for Apollo? Or a billowing cape?

Germanicus crossed my mind, but I am not sure why such an inscription (for the person) would go with the obverse portrait or the nude guy (Genius?). The RPC search came up with this reverse inscription: ΚΑΙⳞΑΡƐΙΑϹ ΓΕΡΜΑΝΙΚΗϹ - which seems to fit my coin (for Caesarea Germanica - a place I'd never heard of). To the left on mine, I can make out "ΑΡƐΙΑϹ" so it seems likely this is the place. But I cannot find any coins from there that look like mine in the usual online places - Wildiwinds, etc.

I dunno. If it was easy, it wouldn't be any fun.

Thanks again.

 

I consider a cheap mystery coin to be the best possible outcome. Why spend $5k so the inside of my safety deposit box can enjoy an aureus from known dies?

Here is one I have been enjoying for over a year. I posted this before, and don't expect answers.

Unknown. 29mm, 13.85g
Obv: uncertain inscription ????ΓΙΟ - ???Ο?MA????? ; Bust right (Maximinus?)
Rev: ...Π ΟΛƐΙΤωΝ; Nude Man (Herakes?) standing left, club (?) in right hand, left hand raised (holding scepter?)
Countermark: Є (Epsilon) in circle (mark of value 5?). Howgego 802; cf Howgego 803-806.

I thought of this guy because your guy is also nude. Most mythical figures are clothed on coins. Only a few go nude: Dionysos, Zeus, Apollo, Poseidon, “Athlete”, and Perseus, Harpocrates, Marsyas. If the figure is holding a club it is Herakles but I am only 90% sure I see a club. I found depictions of Apollo with his arm in my pose but never nude -- he is always in a short cloak ('chalmys').

For me, inscription probably means this comes from a city whose name ends in "...polis". Which means a lot of cities! I don't want to derail the discussion of your coin by talking about mine.

On yours I thought I saw two ribbons coming off the body to the left. You suggest "chalmys", which is different than nude.

ISEGRIM doesn't include Europe or Syria so it may not be of help, FYI.

 

BMC Pontus etc. was only slightly helpful. None of Elagabalus from this city in their collection. There is this interesting reverse description on a coin of Maximus. It's 0.95 inches, so about 24 mm or so.

 

Well I like anything with a countermark - that is indeed interesting. I wish I could help. That touching-the-head pose appears to be common - not just for Aphrodite, but for male figures too. I too see a club.

I'm glad you included your coin here - it would be fine if everybody piled on their "unknowns" - the resource pool on CT is amazing.

Chalmys vs. Nude - that made me laugh. You are right of course. Maybe I should say "indecent" rather than nude - I know if I go to work clad only in my chalmys, I will get arrested for the same charge they'd get me for as a nudist! I'd probably get fired too.

 

Very interesting coin. I'm stumped.

 

Here is my latest attempt to identify the couple dozen ancients that I haven't been able to figure out. Sometimes I go through the pile and try to figure 'em out. Sometimes I get a bit closer to solving the puzzle; thus I am resurrecting this antique thread. With new photos too!

This one appears to be unlisted. If anybody can add any information, I'd be very pleased. At some point I might send it to RPC to see if they want to add it to their database.

Since the OP, I think I figured out the reverse figure - Phosphorus holding two torches, cape blowing behind, apparently otherwise not attired (hope those torches aren't sparking!). The reverse legend is pretty clear - it was issued by Caesarea Germanica. Here's mine with my latest efforts at an attribution:



Elagabalus Æ 19 Caesarea Germanica, Bithynia (c. 218-222 A.D.) [Μ ΑΥΡ?] ΑΝΤΩΝΙΝΟC ΑΥΓΟΥ, laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust right / [ΚΑ CΑ]ΡΕΙΑC ΓΕΡΜΑΝΙΚΗC, Phosphorus advancing left, holding two torches Unlisted (see notes). (3.55 grams / 19 x 18 mm) eBay Oct. 2019 $3.00

Attribution: This appears to be unlisted. See:

RPC VI 10926 (temporary) same (or similar) legends, Elagabalus, Caesarea Germanica, athlete reverse https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/6/10926

CNG E-Auction 188; Lot 211; 28.05.2008: Diadumenian, Caesarea Germanica, Phosphorus advancing right

I found an unlisted Phosphorus type for Diadumenian (CNG auction) that looks an awful lot like mine, except Phosphorus is hurrying off in the opposite direction. The obverse legend on mine would appear to be Elagabalus. Here's a comparison photo with the Diadumenian:



CNG auction: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=479622

Here's the RPC Elagabalus with the athlete reverse - the obverse inscription seems to match mine, thus my belief mine is for Elagabalus (but not a die-match, alas):



https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/6/10926

Further compounding the mystery is what town are we talking about? - Wikipedia:

Germanicopolis (Greek: Γερμανικόπολις) was an ancient town in Bithynia, also known as Caesarea in Bythinia (not to be confused with Caesarea Germanica, as such a former bishopric and present Latin Catholic titular see. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanicopolis_(Bithynia)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanicopolis_(Bithynia)

Kahramanmaraş (Turkish pronunciation: [kahɾaˈmanmaɾaʃ]), historically Marash (Turkish: Maraş; Armenian: Մարաշ) and Germanicea (Greek: Γερμανίκεια), is a city in the Mediterranean region of Turkey and the administrative centre of Kahramanmaraş province.

Maraş was called Germanicia Caesarea (Ancient Greek: Γερμανίκεια, Germanikeia) in the time of the Roman and Byzantine empires, probably after Germanicus Julius Caesar rather than the German people. According to a 2010 Cumhuriyet article, the first ruins of Germanicia have already been unearthed in the Dulkadiroğulları quarters of the city. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahramanmaraş

Yeah, "not to be confused" is what I am not. If that makes sense. The coin sources say this is the one in Bithynia.

Share your mysteries, your attribution journeys, your tired, your poor, your huddled masses of coins yearning to be identified (with apologies to Emma Lazarus and the Statue of Liberty).

Anything else from Caesarea Germanica would be good to see too (RPC lists only 24 types total).

P.S. Technical glitch. Can't seem to get the "full image" to work. Sorry. I'm not very good with this stuff.

 

Is he holding a dolphin in R hand? It looks kind of like those barbarous Claudius pieces with Neptune holding a little dolphin (I think). Not the whole coin, but whatever the heck he's holding in his R hand reminds me of that little dolphin. Cool find. I love mystery coins; you could even wind up with a unique coin (though, technically, for me that means the mystery never gets satisfactorily solved, so...)