Featured Roman Provincial Coin Cities-- How many can we cover?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by TIF, Jul 23, 2017.

  1. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Thank you! I've had some for over 50 years. Time to let others enjoy them.
     
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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    That city wasn't on the list! It has now been added and ticked. Thanks :)
     
  4. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    KINGS of COMMAGENE. Antiochos IV Epiphanes. AD 38-72. Æ (28mm, 14.33 gm, 1h). Obv: BAΣIΛEYΣ • MEΓΑΣ • ANTIOXOΣ, diademed and draped bust right Countermark: crossed cornucopias. Rev: ΚΟΜΜΑΓΗΝΩΝ, Scorpion within wreath. RPC I 3857.
    AntiochosIVCommagene.jpg
     
  5. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    KINGS of GALATIA. Amyntas. 39-25 BC. Æ (25mm, 13.67 gm, 10h). Obv: Head of Herakles r., club over shoulder. Rev: Lion walking right; B above, monogram(s) in ex. RPC I 3505; SNG France 2377-82.
    Amyntas.jpg
     
  6. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Archelaus, King of Cappadocia, 36 BC - 17 AD. AR Drachm (3.5 gm, 12h, 20mm). Cappadocia mint. Obv: Diademed head of Archelaus to right. Rev. Upright club Date M to left. BMC 3. RPC 3604. Rare. An on-line quote of interest: "Archelaus, a great-grandson of a general of Mithradates VI, was made king of Cappadocia by Antony and continued to rule under Augustus and on into the reign of Tiberius. He was then called to Rome where he remained until his death in 17, after which Cappadocia was made a Roman province. Despite its small size this is one of the last great Hellenistic regal portraits, yet it also has a clear relation to idealized portraits of Augustus and shows how Roman concepts of portraiture had been incorporated by Greek engravers."
    ArchelausDr.jpg
     
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  7. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    @PeteB... hmm, I'm not sure how to handle the last three coins. Commagene was a Roman province under Tiberius, an independent kingdom during the time of your Antiochos IV, and then a province again after his death.

    As for Amyntus, wasn't Galatia an independent kingdom until his death, when Augustus made Galatia a province of Rome?

    Similarly, Archelaus ruled an independent Cappadocia.
     
  8. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    They are listed in RPC, so I assumed they fit here as "provincial" coins. Perhaps under a new category of "Kings of..."
    Perhaps RPC was incorrect in listing them. Please delete them...and this post...if you feel they are inappropriate.
     
  9. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    I'll re-read the RPC intro in the morning when my brain works better :D. I have no objection at all to showing such coins in this thread, whether or not we end up counting them on the list. Determining whether to classify a coin as "Roman Provincial" is not as straightforward as it seems!
     
  10. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Agreed. Perhaps the author(s) of RPC agonized on this very thing. Perhaps it hinges on what true "independence" was.
     
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  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    This is a long standing question for coin collectors. Sear got us used to the matter by defining 'Greek' more or less as anything ancient not Roman so when he put out his reek Imperial book, it seemed right to include independent ancients rather than requiring a category of 'neither Greek nor Roman'. My favorite questionable coins are those of Rhodes showing no markings of Roman nature but from a time when Rome was quite in control.
    pz2723fd2105.jpg
    Should we require collectors to know the political situation for every coin or just include coins of later dates regardless of politics?

    What is the meaning of the B (mine is half off)? Why does no one quote the E on the obverse behind the head? Most coins show a par of it.
    g61927fd3332.jpg
     
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  12. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Keen eye, Doug. I didn't notice the E on my coin, but it is there.....and not mentioned in RPC!
     
  13. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    I can only assume there is a connection here with Antioch coinage of the time... Does anyone have any more information about this?
     
  14. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    John Slocum wrote in his "Another look at the coins of Hatra," "The reverse type of the large Shamash coins is undoubtedly an inept imitation of the familiar issues of Antioch, their SC (printed backward in his paper, reflecting the coins) a mirror image of the SC of the Greek Imperial pieces. Dieudonne believed that the prototype was the coinage of Antoninus Pius, upon which, according to the French numismatist, the eagle and the letters SC appeared for the first time." And "It should be noted, however, that on the Antiochene coinage under Antoninus Pius, the eagle on the reverse is below and not above the letters. The reverse of the large coins of Shamash were more likely a synthesis of the eagle so prominent on the reverse of the tetradrachms of Antioch with the SC on the reverse of the Senatorial bronzes." Ref: The American Numismatic Society Museum Notes 22 (1977).
     
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  15. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    Thank you, Pete! Very fascinating!
     
  16. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    I should have added the very first sentence of Slocum's paper: "In the general category of Greek Imperial coins, without a doubt the most peripheral and esoteric are those of Hatra, a small desert state which achieved some measure of independence from Parthia or from Adiabene, itself a Parthian tributary, in the first quarter of the second century of our era and lost it to the Sassanian king, Shapur I, in the second quarter of the third century."
     
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  17. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    CYPRUS, Paphos. Roman Rule. Cleopatra VII? Mid 1st century BC. Æ (16mm, 3.10 g, 12h). Obv: Diademed head of Zeus-Ammon right. Rev: Zeus Salaminios(?) standing left, holding scepter and grain ears. Zapiti & Michaelidou 69 (Cleopatra VII?); Nicolaou Paphos II 469-509; Cox Curium 128; BMC Pl. LXXXI, 2. See:
    https://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=284295 CleopatraVIIPtolemyCyprus.jpg
     
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  18. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    Nice little chunk of bronze, and interesting history! I did not have Paphos on the list but have now added it. Thanks :)

    On the spreadsheet I should add links to the coins shown in this thread, at least for the first coin shown for a given city. I've done so with this one and maybe over the holidays I'll go through the thread and add the other 309 represented so far.
     
  19. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Great idea!!!!
     
  20. Okidoki

    Okidoki Supporter! Supporter

    CARIA Harpasa Hadrian, Harpasos reclining
    Reference.
    RPC III, 2225; BMC 7, Delrieux 28/HP/5; Paris 676 = Wa 2394

    Obv. ΑΥ ΚΑΙ ΤΡΑ ΑΔΡΙΑΝΟС
    Laureate head of Hadrian, right

    Rev. ΑΡΠΑСΗΝΩΝ
    River-god Harpasos reclining l., holding reed in r. hand, l. resting on overturned vase form which water flows

    5.79 gr
    23 mm
    12h
    1199 P Hadrian RPC2225.jpg
     
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  21. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Doug, what is the diameter of your Amyntas? Mine is 25mm. A great one sold recently by NOMOS was 21 mm.
    https://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotv...&Lot=343&Val=a9f01706c9c5677e43baca04d9659191
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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