Roma Winnings

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Campbell Miller, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. Campbell Miller

    Campbell Miller Well-Known Member

    Hey all,
    A little late to the game, but I'm curious as to how everyone did in the recent Roma Numismatics E-Sale 88. I had a few bids out, but only managed to win one.

    Maurice Tiberius AV Solidus. Constantinople, AD 583-602. D N MAVRC TIb P P AV, helmeted, draped and cuirassed bust facing, holding globus cruciger / VICTORIA AVGG I, angel standing facing, holding long staff surmounted by staurogram and globus cruciger; CONOB in exergue. MIBE 6; DOC 5; Sear 478. 4.49g, 22mm, 6h
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  3. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Was hoping for some large lots, but got a few single provincials.

    Nothing too special, probably shouldn't have even bought them but...
  4. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    Nice pickup, @Campbell Miller.
    No luck for me at E-sale 88, but hoping to pickup something in the upcoming Auction XXII. :)
    panzerman and Roman Collector like this.
  5. Campbell Miller

    Campbell Miller Well-Known Member

    Auction XXII is a little out of my price range haha
    happy_collector likes this.
  6. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I was able to land an owl and a couple of group lots. I was really hoping to win an imitative owl, but got sniped in the final seconds. Such are the fortunes and misfortunes of these auctions.

    One of the large lots won, some Byzantine bronzes have some nice coins, but also, I suspect, a fake of the Justinian I follis, year 12, Constantinople. I took that into account when bidding - the other coins are worth the winning bid. Once they arrive, I'll take some snaps.
  7. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I threw in a few bids early in the morning on a whim. I won one of the lots fairly cheap and didn't realise so until later that night while attending a concert.


    Me on the right - super tired but happy!
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
    Deacon Ray, Scipio, Orfew and 6 others like this.
  8. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    There was only one lot I was interested in and I won! Faustina II is wearing a stephane on this middle bronze, making it a bust variety I needed for my super-duper specialized Faustina II collection.

    Faustina Jr SALVTI AVGVSTAE S C seated MB stephane Roma.jpg
    Faustina II, AD 147-175.
    Roman Æ as or dupondius, 11.69 g, 26 mm, 12 h.
    Rome, AD 161-163.
    Obv: FAVSTINA AVGVSTA, draped bust, right, and wearing stephane.
    Rev: SALVTI AVGVSTAE S C, Salus seated left, feeding snake coiled round altar from patera in right hand and resting left arm on chair.
    Refs: RIC 1671; BMCRE 995; Cohen 201; RCV 5303; MIR 30-7/10a, b diad.
    Notes: Ex Antonio Carmona Collection.
  9. corvusconstantius

    corvusconstantius Active Member

    I bid on 8 coins and didn't win any. Most went for about double what I planned on paying, and way over the estimates.

    Fancied this Geta and thought the £50 estimate was a slight undervalue. Didn't expect it to hammer for £220.


    I really liked the trophy reverse on this Trajan. Most I was willing to go was the reasonable £75 estimate. Hammered for £120.


    I wanted this Diocletian and bid around 50 or so for it. Estimated at 40, hammered for 65.


    There was a lovely Maxentius with temple reverse that I considered breaking the bank for. Estimated at 75, I decided to max out at 90. Hammered for 200.


    There was more including a neptune Denarius of Severus, A silvered Constantine campgate, a Fecud Faustina II, but you get the idea.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  10. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    The group lot, #1736, from Roma E-Sale 88 arrived yesterday. This is a lot of 6 Byzantine folles, of Justinian I, Phocas and Heraclius. This lot is truly a "mixed bag". It has one well known fake, the follis of Justinian I, year 12, of Constantinople, but also some really nice Justinian I seated folles of Antioch, as well as an interesting follis of Heraclius that might be an Arab imitation.

    First the fake.

    This is a well documented modern fake of Justinian's follis of year 12, Constantinople, officina Γ. At 15.2 grams, this coin is well below the weight typical of his reform folles. Stylistically, the portrait and other elements are an approximation of the original design, with rather thick lettering and crudely engraved elements. Additionally, as can be seen in the second photo, the con's edge is rounded and smooth with cracks. The flan is narrow, and not broad, as would be expected for his early reform folles.

    I'm not sure about the method of production of this fake. It could be a cast, or it could have been made from dies - not sure on that one.

    D-Camera Justinian I follis fake year 12 con 15.2g roma 88 group lot 9-21-21.jpg

    D-Camera Justinian I follis edge shot fake year 12 con 15.2g roma 88 group lot 9-21-21.jpg

    Now for the other coins.

    I knew about the fake follis in this lot, so I looked at the the others, and generally they are quite nice.

    I've noticed that the seated folles of Justinian I, from Antioch, are pretty difficult to locate in nice condition. This lot had two.

    This coin was struck on an oval shaped flan. Overall very good details and strike, with some die shift on the reverse, giving the M a very vertical appearance.

    Officina Γ

    17.0 grams

    D-Camera Justinian I follis antioch officina Γ 17.1g Roma 88 group lot 9-21-21.jpg

    While somewhat crude, this next coin is another nice seated follis.

    Officina B

    15.0 grams

    D-Camera Justinian I follis antioch officina B 15.0g Roma 88 group lot 9-21-21.jpg

    The next coin is a follis of Phocas, year one, Cyzicus.

    Officina B

    12.5 grams

    D-Camera Phocas follis Cyzicus officina B year 1 12.5g Roma 88 group lot 9-21-21.jpg

    I think this next coin is a possible imitation. It is supposed to be a follis of Hercalius, year 4, Constantinople, officina Γ. The style of the figures on the obverse are crudely done, even when compared to Heraclius' bronze coinage (and that's saying a lot), and they are only 3/4 figures, unlike the full, narrow figures normally seen on his folles of this period (see the year 10 follis, below). The letter looks like gibberish. On the reverse, the correct year and mint are present, but the style of the lettering, such as the "CON" seems somewhat odd.

    Could this coin be an Arab or other contemporary imitation?

    7.9 grams

    D-Camera Heraclius  follis poss imitation con officina Γ yr. 4  7.9g Roma 88 group lot 9-21-21.jpg

    The last follis from the lot is Heraclius, year 10, Constantinople, Officina B.

    9.0 grams

    D-Camera Heraclius  follis  con officina B yr. 10  9.0g Roma 88 group lot 1736 9-21-21.jpg

    So, the fake notwithstanding, the other coins from the lot are nice additions. The fake will be documented as such and added to my "black box".
  11. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Just a question as a non “lot” buyer”… I know most listings state “no returns” but are fakes accepted in this agreement? If you buy a lot and it includes fakes is there no recourse with the auction house? I always thought the “no returns” referred to coin condition…basically you may get some legit old slugs but buyer beware. In many lot offerings you can’t view each individual coins obv and rev….so I assumed you’re betting on condition? But I have zero experience in this way of buying… what if a whole lot you buy next month is fake? Do you have any recourse?
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
  12. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    "As is" literally means what you see is what you get, no returns, period. That's why it is very important to do your homework before bidding. So, if a coin has a condition issue, such as tooling or smoothing, that is the way things are with these group lots. The same is true for the fake follis. I am sure Roma recognized it, as it is quite well known, but included it in the lot with some other nicer, genuine folles to off-set its presence. That's why I focused on the Justinian I folles from Antioch and the other coins in this lot. Bidders need to know what they are looking at and bid accordingly.

    Now, in this case there were only 6 coins, each with the obverse and reverse displayed. Other group lots can have 50 or 100 coins usually shown as a pile. Obviously the auction house is not going to photograph each coin. In that situation, you need to gauge the bid based on the type of coins, such as late Roman bronzes, on the price a typical coin, in average condition, brings in the open market, plus some discount percentage, since you really don't know what is within the pile. I've never placed bids on lots that large - too much of risk of getting a pile of coins that are pretty bad - corroded, worn, or otherwise damaged. Some collectors have luck with these really large lots, but they are a gamble.

    I've had pretty good success buying group lots in the past, although I don't do this on a regular basis. I imagine savvy dealers do. My greatest success, and one that has provided hours of research and pleasure has been with the Byzantine bronze group lots. Lots of interesting types in them, and the price, when averaged out, is lower than what the coins would cost me individually on MA Shops, Vcoins or eBay, generally speaking.
  13. Meander

    Meander Well-Known Member

    Congrats to all who have been able to obtain their targets in the recent Roma e-sale! I have just received my Kyzikos EL stater. It looks great in hand, has even some light toning.

    Kyzikos EL Stater. Circa 500-450 BC. Winged sphinx, with 'lock of immortality' on head, crouching to left, with right forepaw raised; tunny to below / Quadripartite incuse square. Von Fritze 72, pl. II, 25; Boston 1450; SNG BnF 200. 16.07g, 21mm

  14. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Just an opinion: If you are buying lots that are all fakes, you really need to reevaluate where you are shopping for coins. Finding coins worth owning is a skill worth developing but more important is finding sources for coins with which you are comfortable dealing or hiring an agent you are paying to assist you in the quest. If you are patronizing sellers that need to be watched to be sure they are not pulling a fast one on you, you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. There is a lot to be said for the educational value of an occasional fake IF it helps provide the education you need to enjoy the hobby.

    Another opinion: Buying large lots of unillustrated coins in a pile places you at a disadvantage when competing with dealers or agents who travel to preview lots being offered and have had the chance to see/handle exactly what is being offered. I have only travelled a couple hundred miles on one occasion to preview lots in an auction. There are a number of people who do this as a regular part of their lives. Who will be better situated when it is time to bid?
    Roman Collector and tartanhill like this.
  15. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Only lot I have ever purchased was from the recent AMCC auction - small, inexpensive lot of Byzantines. I am not doing any of the above.. was just asking a question.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
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