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<p>[QUOTE="robinjojo, post: 22734759, member: 110226"]The issue of ambiguous and vague, at best, provenances of coins offered at auction has been a longstanding one, done with a wink and a nod by firms and dealers alike. This is not a major issue of the vast majority of ancient coins, since they enter the market in often enormous numbers, like the standardized Athenian owls flooding the auction and retail scenes, or the untold hoards of late Roman bronze coins. </p><p><br /></p><p>However, with very high profile coins, where hundreds of thousands and, in the case of the Eid Mar aureus, multiple millions, the issue of false provenance becomes a central issue. I can understand this issue, since such a false provenance misleads the potential buyers and in the end the new owner. It is a case of fraud, and is not condoned in the field of coin collecting or any other transaction. </p><p><br /></p><p>The issue of repatriation is another matter, and a sticky one, since it is interlaced with the issue of cultural protection, which is generally a good thing, I feel. It is important that a nation be able to retain significant cultural artifacts. I think the Elgin Marbles, for example, should be returned to Greece. We may bemoan that some countries do not have the capacity to curate artifacts, but, as with the Benin bronzes museums are coming around to recognizing the need for the artifacts, especially those significant ones that were looted in the past, should return to their countries of origin. I say significant artifacts, such as those mentioned, and not, say a run-of-the-mill scarab or, more germane to this thread, the vast majority of coins that flow into the market and collections. </p><p><br /></p><p>I do share the concern expressed so comprehensively in the post of <b>GinoLR </b>concerning the looting of coin hoards for commercial gain. This is a problem driven by economics (obviously), conflict and poverty primarily. Many of the ancient coins that grace our collections come to us through networks of individuals and groups that seek coins in likely locations using metal detectors (among other means) to find coins, individually and in groups, that are sold to middle men, who in turn sell to local or regional dealers, who may sell directly to buyers or to larger dealers or auction houses. </p><p><br /></p><p>Unfortunately this process is inherently destructive, not only in the physical sense, although that is an issue, but also in the loss of historical knowledge about life in the ancient world. This sad situation is not an easy one to solve. War, weak and corrupt governments, and poverty are endemic in many of the regions that serve as spigots of coins to the ancient coin market. It would indeed be nice if the countries in the Middle East, for example, adopted antiquities laws (including coins) modeled along the lines of the UK law. This, I think should be an ultimate objective, but until the scourges of war, corruption and poverty are ended, and peace and prosperity are introduced, this will be a pipe dream.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="robinjojo, post: 22734759, member: 110226"]The issue of ambiguous and vague, at best, provenances of coins offered at auction has been a longstanding one, done with a wink and a nod by firms and dealers alike. This is not a major issue of the vast majority of ancient coins, since they enter the market in often enormous numbers, like the standardized Athenian owls flooding the auction and retail scenes, or the untold hoards of late Roman bronze coins. However, with very high profile coins, where hundreds of thousands and, in the case of the Eid Mar aureus, multiple millions, the issue of false provenance becomes a central issue. I can understand this issue, since such a false provenance misleads the potential buyers and in the end the new owner. It is a case of fraud, and is not condoned in the field of coin collecting or any other transaction. The issue of repatriation is another matter, and a sticky one, since it is interlaced with the issue of cultural protection, which is generally a good thing, I feel. It is important that a nation be able to retain significant cultural artifacts. I think the Elgin Marbles, for example, should be returned to Greece. We may bemoan that some countries do not have the capacity to curate artifacts, but, as with the Benin bronzes museums are coming around to recognizing the need for the artifacts, especially those significant ones that were looted in the past, should return to their countries of origin. I say significant artifacts, such as those mentioned, and not, say a run-of-the-mill scarab or, more germane to this thread, the vast majority of coins that flow into the market and collections. I do share the concern expressed so comprehensively in the post of [B]GinoLR [/B]concerning the looting of coin hoards for commercial gain. This is a problem driven by economics (obviously), conflict and poverty primarily. Many of the ancient coins that grace our collections come to us through networks of individuals and groups that seek coins in likely locations using metal detectors (among other means) to find coins, individually and in groups, that are sold to middle men, who in turn sell to local or regional dealers, who may sell directly to buyers or to larger dealers or auction houses. Unfortunately this process is inherently destructive, not only in the physical sense, although that is an issue, but also in the loss of historical knowledge about life in the ancient world. This sad situation is not an easy one to solve. War, weak and corrupt governments, and poverty are endemic in many of the regions that serve as spigots of coins to the ancient coin market. It would indeed be nice if the countries in the Middle East, for example, adopted antiquities laws (including coins) modeled along the lines of the UK law. This, I think should be an ultimate objective, but until the scourges of war, corruption and poverty are ended, and peace and prosperity are introduced, this will be a pipe dream.[/QUOTE]
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