RIP Life Savings of Franklin Collectors

Just as big a range? You were talking about $200 coins lol.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

One's individual market should dictate prices, period. In some select cases, yes, paying top of PCGS is perfectly reasonable depending on the coin.

No disrespect, but I cannot help but to find it very amusing that you started this thread lamenting the "loss" of certain collector's "life savings" yet apparently see no reason to even touch upon the fact that such a person would have been beyond foolish to have ever placed their entire future in such coins.

Oy... so much for this place being somewhat of a refuge from this completely unnecessary PC nonsense.

 

Hey buddy I just don't wanna offend. Gotta be careful or someone will come at me 20yrs from not saying I offended a Edited: Should have kept as you were doing. Use " a Person or buyer if you wish" and I definitely don't need that.

 

[aside] That's what's so terribly wrong of late......

 

It's always been wrong, Ken. Common courtesy is finally catching up to common sense.

 

No I wasn't. Guess you have never looked up sales for that date either

 

No of course you weren't

 

Do you not understand price ranges?

 

Big Aside:

Mike, you're absolutely right. This stuff of late is approaching idiocracy......

Now back to your local programming.......

 

You are boring me please say something useful that isn't semantics and switching my words around to make yourself sound correct or as if you are "winning".

The range of sale prices of sale prices of MS66FBL 1948 D Franklins is NOT the same/similar as 1949 D MS66FBL's. One is considered rare and one is considered common.

 

They are similar with their wide range, the 49 D range is actually larger. There's been enough responses for people to be able to see how wrong your claims are about the price guide, there's clearly nothing left to show since you are just continuously resorting to person attacks as opposed to using actual sales data or facts.

 

I am sorry to anyone who feels attacked aside from you of course. You are arguing a point you clearly know nothing about. If you don't even know which are the key dates or not then how do you understand what I am talking about?

Talking about a 1962-1963 MS65FBL again these are coins that always sell for more then, and slightly less then the book value. In fact PCGS just raised the 1962 to $1600 to drop it right back to $1350. If you don't understand the market don't argue back as a fanboy just because you are a fan boy. Present facts no one cares about your opinion.

You also made this about auction prices. But I am talking about in person from a dealer as well as auctions. Auction coins ALWAYS sell for less because most people buy them sight unseen, and many poorly graded examples get dumped in auctions.

By your logic if someone takes a 1909 S VDB graded PCGS MS65RB.....but the coin is actually mostly brown then the value is lost to anyone who has a 1909 S VDB in MS65RB.

Similarly FBL Franklins that are barely FBL or incorrectly attributed are extremely common. Those do sell for much less and they effect the market. The same thing happens for technically correctly graded but ugly coins. PCGS factors nothing but the lowest sale price regardless of all other facts and retail sales prices.

You and some others are held up on auction prices but the market is bigger then the sale prices of Heritage, Stacksbowers, and Legend auction companies.....yet PCGS is being lazy and using them to dictate the values of the coins across the board.

This is the reason why Mr. Snow just came out with that crazy new grading system for Indian Cents. He was also noticing that good coins were being devalued by junk in the auctions.

But yes keep arguing about the range of 1948 D Franklins that sold at heritage lol. What about all the ones that sold for much more on ebay? Ebay buy it now sales don't count because why? They were not auctions?

 

CoinWorld had a price of $3000 for a 1949-D MS66FBL in March of 2017. Their December price for that same coin is $1750. CoinWorld doesn't differentiate between graded or raw. That is a second source of price support for that coin at retail. I'm sure there are other monthly price guides which will support the same price. Do all these price guides get their information from the same place? I don't know.

Not everyone uses PCGS's price guide to buy their coins. The recent RedBook shows a price of $10,000 for a 1949-D MS66FBL Franklin half dollar. At least one of the price guides is in your corner.

 

The problem with your single comparison is that it is a relatively modern coin and is widely available in high grades. It only take one small hoard to sell and destroy much of the premium. There are lots of older collections that were not slabbed and not part of population reports that come to market everyday. I'm nowhere near as ancient (and I say that in the best possible way) as most of our members, but i have been collecting since the time when you actually needed to learn how to grade or get taken. My Franklin set has been complete for over twenty years now with every date, mint mark and proof strike and none of them are graded. Frankly, they weren't worth the cost of submission until relatively recently. I would suspect that the vast majority of Franklin sets are not graded.

 

Yes, absolutely!

The problem is, most price guides aren't updated terribly often. It may have been quite a while since the series as a whole was evaluated - and a rather big correction was required.

I think both the NGC and PCGS price guides have been quite inflated for some time.

The problem here is, Franklin's were really hot a few years ago. Prices were going crazy. Franklin's have cooled off considerably since then, but the price guides never really tracked that. Now, they're getting updated and it is making it look really dire.

 

You logic is not wrong. But Franklins are different because there are some scarce FBL dates that will always be scarce.

Here is another great example. 1953 S MS65 FBL Franklin. A coin that is the absolute king of the series. Greatcollections just sold one for $23,500 in an NGC holder. A PCGS MS65FBL just sold at stacks bowers I think for $13,000 after buyer fee (going from memory I could be wrong.). That coin was absolutely garbage. I would have paid more then it sold for easily.....except the bell lines were not really full. That being the only PCGS example to sell recently just devalued all of them and PCGS dropped the price. Retail that coin could sell for $20,000 easily if it were accurately attributed. Now everyone has to pay the price for that and PCGS I have no doubt remains clueless.

 

The only true thing you wrote there was that some coins do get dumped at auctions. Saying they always sell for less is just another completely untrue assertion on your part

 

Mine ain't.

 

OK Folks. Unless one of you is on the board of PCGS parent company, there is no possible recourse you can take. It is their price guide. If you like it, use it. If not, don't. Arguments will not convince anybody or anyone. Use the red book, PCGS, NCG, Ebay , Heritage, etc. if you are going to do business with them otherwise you can argue forever ( until someone goes off the rules and then gone from here), but nothing said here will change it. Jim

 

Well my family has been collecting coins since about 1870, my Great Grandfather worked at the New Orleans mint, I've been collecting for almost as long as you have been alive and worked for one of the largest numismatic investment firms in the country for several years and traded some of the most valuable coins in the world. I thought I knew a little about coins, but if you say I'm wrong, then I guess I am.