RIP Life Savings of Franklin Collectors

In a move to further kill off the coin market PCGS just massively slashed the price guide values on all conditionally scarce Franklin Half Dollars, many even below their regular auction selling prices.

I suppose this is what we as collectors get for putting all our eggs in the PCGS basket.

I guess they finished killing the Lincoln Cent market and need another target. Anyone else notice the complete lack of conditionally scarce Lincoln's coming to auction since Julyish?

How did PCGS go from market maker to market breaker?

Also it is important to note that not every coin in every auction hits its PCGS price guide value. The thing is many collectors are buying for investment and dealers are buying for profit. If you lower the PCGS price guide prices then that just means the realized prices in the auctions will lower in return.

Example....Take a 1949 D MS66FBL Franklin (a collector favorite) which not long ago was $3000 coin give or take a few hundred dollars. At a $3000 price guide value they brought at auction about $2000-2500 with BP. PCGS lowers the price to $2500 the coins start selling for $1500-$2000. PCGS responds with a drop to $2000 and the coins start selling for $1200-$1500. PCGS counters with a drop to $1800. Auction buyers counter by buying them at auction for $1000-$1200 PCGS counters with a drop to $1200. Do you think buyers at auction will continue paying $1200?....Nope expect them to start paying between $500-$800. You've now deflated the market to virtually nothing and for no reason.

Thanks PCGS for doing this across the board to 1000's of coins and harming those that put their trusted you most. PCGS might say that they do not make the prices. They above is proof otherwise.

 

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Hmm. Not sure pcgs sets the price on them. I think the market sets the price, and pcgs trys to reflect the current price with their guide.

 

I take those PCGS price guides with a grain of sand. The seem so over inflated to me.

 

Please read the example posted. PCGS is setting the market and the prices. The sale prices lower with the price guide drops.

 

I bought some slabbed PCGS coins recently, and mostly I seem to be seeing a lowering of values over the past few years... don't know if they are behind it or if the market was in sort of a bubble. In any case, I can't imagine some dealers are happy about the lower prices if they are offloading for just about what they perhaps paid. Glad I did not try to purchase what I did recently even two-threeish years ago...I'd be taking a drubbing. Right now I am hoping, besides enjoyment, that the ones I have don't tank.

 

Probably PCGS is correct as the price has been going down except for the extreme rarities. I would think that PCGS would like the prices to show as high as possible, but too many other sources of prices realized have always been lower to my thought.

 

If you think the PCGS price guide is overpriced, go take a look at NGC. Recent auction results are the best way to go.

 

I should add a disclaimer, I have never looked at the PCGS guide when I am considering buying a certain coin. I must admit I have peeked at it when I was thinking of selling or evaluating insurance values

 

This thread is going to morph into another "why the hobby is dying" topic. Already have one those going. Should just combine them now...

 

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? In your example, how do you know pcgs is causing the new lower selling price, and just not adjusting their price based on what the coins are actually going for? Their price guide is supposed to MATCH a coins worth. Seems like they are adjusting their guide to meet actual sales prices, which makes sense.

 

Sounds like a chicken and egg story to me.

 

No they don't. The market sets the price.

Which is exactly what they're doing. The 66 is the top pop, but there's 78 of them it's hardly rare or scare by top pop standards.

 

The hobby in my opinion is stronger then it has ever been. That is not up for debate. I am discussing artificial ceilings placed on the coins by a grading service people have come to trust.

Yes prices drop and auction prices fluctuate BUT influence is for example a 1916 D MS66RD $18,500 drop to $4000, a 1946 MS67RD $4500 drop to $950, 1954 MS66RD 1C $300 value drop to $65 in a few months. This is market influence not lack of hobby interest.

 

The artificial ceilings you are trying to blame simply don't exist. The right coins blow the price guides out of the water on a consistent basis and some of them do it by 5 figures or more. Franklin's simply aren't a hot series right now.

If you want to be mad at someone be mad at the people who sold their coins to low which dragged the prices down.

 

Or just start buying in preparation for the next cycle.

 

Top pop only matters to registry set collectors.

The market does set the price but PCGS is setting the ceiling.

Population 1 finest known etc etc varieties are also getting price dropped and valued with no auction appearances.

Also it is very important to note that PCGS is not considering any retail sales. Many dealers are selling coins for close to the PCGS price guide value (and actually selling them) until PCGS alters the market.

Sight unseen auction prices are not the same as in hand coin show coin dealer prices.

 

No they aren't.

Price guides don't matter on those coins. Top pop 1/0 coins no serious buyer is bidding from a price guide. They have a number in their head they'll bid too and that's what they bid too.

That's just simply not true at all. The PCGS price guide just flat out does not have that power. More people look at it to see a snap shot of a few recent sales in it and the population information than they do to actually see the PCGS price. Most people are aware it's a ball park at best and some coins will sell above it and others will sell below it.

 

Praise the almighty my investments are in real estate and stocks......

 

I think that there are many here who would argue that statement.

 

Am I the only one who sees a rather comical problem with the above statement, at least as written?