Returning a counterfeit ebay buy

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by davidh, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Pretty much everything you just wrote is false. The US Marshalls is the oldest law enforcement agency in the USA, PayPal is regulated, eBay isn't a black market
     
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  3. Ordinary Fool

    Ordinary Fool Active Member

    so you say
     
  4. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    I literally just went through this exact scenario.

    In my case, the photos were of a genuine trade dollar. What I got was a fake.

    ***I did NOT have to return the coin***
    ***I DID receive a FULL REFUND***

    Here's what I did;

    I immediately opened an Item Not As Described (INAD) Case. In it, I stated the facts pointing to a counterfeit TD, including images of the coin on a scale, the coin in calipers showing the incorrect diameter, and listed all discrepancies.

    The following day, I called my local Secret Service office. They were not really familiar with TD's, but told me NOT to return the coin if I was certain it was counterfeit, as it could result in legal action against ME.

    I called ebay, explained the case, and told them that I was specifically instructed by the US Secret Service not to return the coin, and that if they wanted to take that issue up with the SS, they were welcome to, but I was not going to return the coin.

    Initially, I was told the case would be further reviewed, and that I would have a resolution in about 3 days.

    I had my refund by the end of business that day without having to return the coin.

    Buried somewhere in eBay's rules and regulations, there is something stating that a proven counterfeit does not have to be returned to the seller for the buyer to receive their funds back. This may require a trip to a local coin shop, or worse, submitting to a TPG, if eBay fights you. I can't for the life of me find that rule again, but it's there, I swear.

    Here is my original email in the INAD case, and I also included 10 photos;

     
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  5. Ordinary Fool

    Ordinary Fool Active Member

    Did they tell you what charge could be brought against you for mailing that back?

    Postal Fraud and there's no reason not to go straight to the USPS Inspector General since he has origin.

    Ebay's deal cut years ago didn't include immunity from postal fraud so they cannot and will not tell you to mail it back and break a federal law.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  6. Ordinary Fool

    Ordinary Fool Active Member

    No it isn't. The Postal Service existed before the US Marshall's service did and even before the Postal Service was the National Guard, which is actually an even older law enforcement agency than the USPS.

    The rest, you're crazy if you think so.
     
  7. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Yes the US Marshall's is the oldest founded in 1789. Postal Police Agency wasn't formed until 1830. The Marshals are the oldest law enforcement agency in the country
    https://www.usmarshals.gov/history/oldest.htm
    https://www.usmarshals.gov/history/timeline.html

    The National Guard is not law enforcement, that is military. You really don't seem to have any clue what you are talking about.
     
  8. Ordinary Fool

    Ordinary Fool Active Member

    The post office and the office of the Inspector General, having law enforcement powers, came to be in 1775.

    The National Guard most certainly does have law enforcement powers as part of its edict and duty charge. I'm certain you have no idea which laws they are indeed empowered to uphold and under what circumstances.

    Now continue advising the OP he should commit postal fraud and mail the CF coin back for his refund........ sounds about par.

    "The oldest federal law enforcement agency in the United States is truly the Marshals Service."

    You do realize the qualifier "federal" is not the same as United States of America. The USPS existed before the Federal District was created and the National Guard is coming on 400 years old.
     
  9. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    False again. It was 1772, and actually 1750 under the British. 1775 was the first surveyor, 1801 was the date of the first special agent and 1830 is when the agency was formed. 1830 is the date their agency is recognized as being founded.

    https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/aboutus/History.aspx

    They are military not a law enforcement agency period. You are the first person I have ever seen be so wrong and misinformed that you think the national guard is a LEO.
     
  10. Ordinary Fool

    Ordinary Fool Active Member

    As long as mail has been delivered in this nation, and with the founding of the postal service in 1775, it has had law enforcement powers.

    "Under the Second Continental Congress, William Goddard becomes the first Surveyor of the American postal system. We trace the beginning of the United States Postal Inspection Service to August 7, 1775 "

    What do you think the National guard were doing in Montgomery, Alabama in the 50's?

    Enforcing law and if you did some actual studying you'd know which laws in the United States they have always been empowered to enforce and uphold.
     
  11. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    The agency was started in 1830. An agency has to exist the entire time to be the oldest.

    I honestly just feel bad for you at this point. The National Guard is military, not LEO. Even kids in elementary school know that.
     
  12. Ordinary Fool

    Ordinary Fool Active Member

    You surely aren't suggesting no crimes ever occurred with the Postal Service having origin and resulting in conviction prior to 1830. Yes, I do believe that is what you are saying.

    In fact what you say couldn't have happened took place before 1789.

    Kids in elementary school..... ohhhhh... so you really believe that the National Guard has no law enforcement powers and that it enforced absolutely no laws starting from the late 1600's on? What exactly was the National Guard doing then when they drew their weapons on, and even killed people on this continent? What were they doing in Montgomery, Alabama back in the day?

    Civil insurrection and also 1983 rights.... to this day and if you read the Military Manuals, you will see the DOD certainly is charged with the upholding and enforcing of the people's civil rights and expressly not limited to just those signing onto the UCMJ.

    The National Guard certainly has an explicit contract with the people of the United States of America and has since before the country began. Perhaps you should read it sometime. The language is quite clear.

    You don't learn that in public schools, obviously.
     
  13. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

  14. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    It's not even worth the hassle to do business with EBay any more.
    Most of my purchases I have been very pleased with, a few I was not, but that's life.
    The last thing I bought, the seller used deceptive photos, or I never would have bid.
    It wasn't a lot of money, and I e mailed him, and left negative feedback and I never heard from the seller. I haven't bought anything on EBay since, it's prob been 6 months to a year.
    When you are talking about counterfeits and the Secret Service etc., it's just not worth it.
     
  15. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    This is the last time I am responding to you because this has just gotten sad at this point.

    The oldest LEO agency is the US Marshals that is a fact. Their agency was the first created that is still around today. This shouldn't be a hard concept.

    The National Guard is part of the military they are not a LEO. The sadest part about all of this is that you are mixing up numerous different things from what you had said and just arguing to argue. My apologies that you are unable to grasp the concept of an agency or the classification of an organization
     
  16. Ordinary Fool

    Ordinary Fool Active Member


    Clearly, you've never even stood near a pre-1960 history book or anyone that graduated from Westpoint or the Citadel.

    In your warped version of reality, no laws were ever enforced from one state to another, or that involved interstate crimes, until the move from Philadelphia to DC occurred.

    That is patently untrue as such took place prior to the existence of the US Marshalls and before DC's federal jurisdiction came to exist.
     
  17. Ordinary Fool

    Ordinary Fool Active Member

    Companies A and C, 1/145th Infantry and Troop G of the 2/107th Armored Cavalry, Ohio National Guard (ARNG), the units on the campus grounds, attempted to disperse the students. The legality of the dispersal was later debated at a subsequent wrongful death and injury trial. On appeal, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit ruled that authorities (the National Guard) did indeed have the right to disperse the crowd.

    Krause v. Rhodes, 471 F.2d 430 (United States Court of Appeals, 6th Cir. 1974

    Certainly NOT one of the finest moments of LAW ENFORCEMENT history in the United States of America. However, there can be no denying it was carried out in the name of Law Enforcement.
     
  18. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Okay I lied, one last time because of how sad this is. You need to learn what an agency is. Then you need to learn the difference between a classification and a function. By your definition Navy Seals are gas station attendants and grocery store clerks because they put gas in their cars and buy food at a super market.

    The military was used because local LEOs couldn't be trusted in the opinion of the governor. They did not become a LEO. They are military, I can see why you think the Citadel is an elite school now which by the way is tied to no military organization. You putting it on par with West Point says enough. There's 5 service academies and the Citadel isn't one.
     
  19. Ordinary Fool

    Ordinary Fool Active Member

    and MS66 Morgans really are MS69
     
  20. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    THIS THREAD HAS BEEN DERAILED
    [​IMG]

    Reel it back in, mods...
    [​IMG]
     
  21. serafino

    serafino Well-Known Member

    And crooked sellers will try to resell the counterfeit to somebody else. It happened to coin I bought on Ebay from a Canadian seller. It was a 1812 Italian crown in XF condition. When I received it it felt light, so I put it on a scale and it was 3 grams too light. I returned the coin and I watched the seller re-list it and it sold to another unsuspecting buyer.
     
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