Returning a counterfeit ebay buy

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by davidh, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    I bought a Trade Dollar through ebay. It was a nice looking 1877S at a reasonable price. I didn't examine the pictures as closely as I should have; if I had I would have picked up that it had a type 1 reverse (which wasn't used in 1877).

    Anyway, when I got it it did look "off" so checking further I saw it did have the type 1 reverse, it was 6 gr light in weight and .2 mm narrow. I immediately contacted the buyer through ebay and have received an email that he would send a return label and take it back.

    The problem I have is that he wants the coin back before making a refund. I feel that since I had to pay for it before he sent it to me; shouldn't he be required to make a refund before I send it back. Does ebay cover me if I return it and don't get the full refund?
     
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  3. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    Actually, you have to send it back first before the refund is given. That's how pretty much all businesses work. Just file for a return on ebay, and it walks you through the process, including letting you print a return label. Once he gets it back, he issues the refund. If he doesn't, you ask ebay to step in, and the issue it.
     
  4. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    No you don't get to keep things with your money back before sending them back. No retail of any kind works in that manner and you should know that
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  5. daveydempsey

    daveydempsey Well-Known Member

    As soon as you open a dispute with ebay they freeze his funds in Paypal.
    When it is proven the coin has been returned the funds are returned to you.
     
  6. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Pretty much yes, if you return it with tracking so it can be shown it was received.
     
  7. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector Supporter

    Yep, "return for refund" is the standard procedure.
     
  8. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    If the seller refused to accept the return, and eBay had to step in to force it, they might let you keep the counterfeit -- at least, that happened to me once or twice in the past. The idea, I guess, was that you don't want to return a fake so the seller can try again. But you can see the enormous potential for abusing that policy, and I think it's been modified since.

    But as others have said, if the seller accepts the return, you do have to return the coin before getting your money back.
     
  9. Stork

    Stork I deliver Supporter

    And ship it with tracking, I might even spring for signature regardless of value.
     
  10. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    It is ebay/the seller who will be providing the return label. So if it gets lost in the mail, ebay covers it.
     
    Stork likes this.
  11. Stork

    Stork I deliver Supporter

    Good point. Forgot that detail.
     
  12. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Supporter! Supporter

    Open a case with eBay, reason for return is that it's counterfeit - it's somewhere in the dropdowns, maybe under not as described.

    Then follow eBay's instructions to the letter.
     
    Garlicus likes this.
  13. Cascade

    Cascade The Blind VAMmer

    Do not send it back so he can just resell it. Call eBay and open a SNAD case.
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  14. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    He better have to send it back for a refund. The idea that someone can just say this is fake and get their money back is terrifying for sellers. That issue is much larger than sending a single coin back which he hasn't even posted for confirmation anyway
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
    Insider, Blissskr and -jeffB like this.
  15. Cascade

    Cascade The Blind VAMmer

    Happens all the time. Typically eBay let's the seller keep the money too but enough of those and the seller starts getting punished with 3 day account suspensions and enough of those and they'll indefinitely suspend the account. And if a buyer keeps doing it that account can get suspended as well
     
  16. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Sometimes yes sometimes no. I've had a lot of interesting experiences there some of which cost me money from scamming buyers dealing with their system I have little to no faith that it is assured to work properly since I have actually had a PCGS CAC coin removed for being fake by their "watch" group which I submitted to both personally.

    So yea in the grand scheme of things I don't want any system where people don't have to return something or where their word is believed because they said so
     
  17. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    The issue I have is with trust. I trusted him to deliver a ganuine, as advertised, coin but I got a counterfeit. How do I trust that he'll admit receiving the coin back and then issue payment without hassle?
     
    Ordinary Fool likes this.
  18. Ordinary Fool

    Ordinary Fool Active Member

    I would absolutely refuse to knowingly ship a CF coin through the USPS.

    I absolutely would contact the USPS IG.

    I absolutely wouldn't give two carps about the seller, ebay or paypal (all implicated if charges were to be brought) beyond notifying them what was up.

    Why this proliferates and continues is that people fail to realize there are laws and people with the actual horsepower to enforce them. Like you and the consensus here, 'just do what he says and commit a crime as well.... how else do you expect to get your money?'

    The USPS has the oldest law enforcement agency in the United States of America and the IG of it is not somebody you want 'upin yo bidniz'.

    You really don't think that eBay (the world's largest black market and fence that cut a deal years ago to make them immune) and paypal (the world's largest totally unregulated bank) cares one bit about this one seller robbing you and harming the market for a small slice of oddball "collectors", do you?
     
  19. Ordinary Fool

    Ordinary Fool Active Member

    Now you're using your head although still overlooking that this seller committed violations of federally codified statutes that happen also to be crimes at common law.

    Draw the line and don't do it.

    Get your money back and what I'd do is tell the guy if he wants it back, come get it.
     
  20. Johndoe2000$

    Johndoe2000$ Well-Known Member

    Contact EBAY, (by phone) and tell them of your concerns. Let them advise you, as per their procedures.
     
  21. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    That's why you send it back with tracking, so you can show that it WAS delivered. Even if the USPS goofs and delivers it to the wrong place, eBay accepts the tracking delivery statement as being proof it was delivered back to him.
     
    Insider likes this.
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