Registry Sets Flawed System

You know, there might be a market for that actually. I have seen sillier ideas. Some people simply have a internal mechanism to be "the best" at anything, regardless of what it takes.

Btw, I truly like it for those members who wish to organize and track their collection this way that there is such things as registry sets. I am glad it makes you happy, no sarcasm intended. Lots of ways to enjoy this hobby, and that is one of them. Personally, I rebel at the notion of someone else telling me what constitutes a "set", but to each his own and plenty of room for every type of collector.

 

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Well I'm not a registry set fanatic. I just started it and only have two coins in my registry and they both belong to the same set. I'm only doing it for this set, or was rather, cause not sure I want to continue doing it in light of the falsifying possibility. The set is only 5 coins to complete. So if I continue it, by no means am I looking to get into it big time or become one of these irrational registry set clowns. It was a one and done deal.

 

By the way, did you say what 2 coins you have for your registry? I am curious, and I would like to know which set that is? 5 coin set, hmmm, could that be the flying eagle cents? This set, of course would have to include the over date-58 over 57.

 

I think we all agree when it comes to describing registry sets as a game of "one-ups-man-ship" which drive prices to insanely high amounts. This is the reason why I do think they affect prices for some coins beyond the top pops, although agreed, probably not as much (or to as many) as I was making it out to seem earlier.

Like yourself, I also don't feel the need to get into competing with others. Mainly because it makes it much more expensive to collect! If the competition wouldn't raise prices by so much, then maybe it would be fun to participate in registry sets. Not to the extent where you become obsessed or make it the main objective of your collecting, but just for a little extra fun. Of course we know this not the reality of it though.

As for "do little to expand the collector base", I don't know if that's necessarily true. I guess that depends on your definition of collector. If by collector you mean a purest, then that's probably true. However the registry's have brought in a lot of non-purest (investor type collectors) simply because of the money. If you include these people then the base has certainly expanded.

BOOM! Take that registry set clowns*!

On a serious note, I think you're talking about the purest collectors here. These are the collectors that are more knowledgeable about coins and their history. These people tend to be the ones you see buying classic coins for large sums of money at fancy auctions. However, there is also another breed of collector out there. They seem to be the younger crowd which prefers to buy labels nor cares about history. They too can shell out some big bucks despite being younger (perhaps they are spending trust fund money??). I'm not saying one is better than the other, just pointing out that they both exist.

*Does not apply to those that purchase from me

Dispels? So you believe that there are more participating than not participating? I honestly have no idea which has more, but this part would be in disagreement with Medoraman who stated earlier he believes there are less people participating. Interesting to see the numbers behind your analysis.

 

Yea not that set... that's beyond my budget lol. They are German coins. Third Reich 1 pfennig coins, to be more specific. It's one of the more basic sets of that era since it's just a date set (1936-1940).

I choose this set because A) I like these coins B) I thought reaching the top could be attainable, while still being a decent challenge. Turns out it will be more of a challenge than I initially calculated since the dude at #1 has some which are harder to find than I anticipated.

As I mentioned earlier though... I'm not quite as psyched to complete this set as I was when I started after realizing the top set could be bogus (not that I believe it is) or that I myself could just create a bogus set within an hour and be at the top (not that I would).

 

Who says everyone wants to be top dog in the registry sets, many use them as a free database to track what they have and a easy way to find coins they need by a quick glance
There are alot more sets out there that are collector grades than top pop sets. But again it is nice to look at some of the top pop coins and drool.

Example of drool http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/publishedset.aspx?s=123708

 

I think the registry set is a great idea. I use it as a way to compete with myself, and track inventory. I will never get to the top for the series I collect. The top SLQ, WLH, Peace sets all include coins I have no desire to chase. I do enjoy looking at the photos of the top sets though. That is something I could not do if the sets did not exist.

Some people choose to cheat at things. I understand that going in.

 

I like Registry Sets.
Why?
Because I have a LOT of money invested in my collection and I don't like the idea of them just sitting in a safe deposit box.
I don't want them to have disappeared into a "black hole".
I want to be able to show others what I've done.

Vanity?
Yep, that's a large part of it.
It's similar to athletes displaying all their awards and trophies.

I have 8-10 regular NGC Registry Sets.
And one Custom Set (a birthyear set).
And I'm busy filling in the holes of a second Custom Set ("Arrows at Date" SL coins).

I'm proud of what I've done in numismatics.
I feel a big part of collecting is being able to show others what you've accomplished.

 

And that is great for you sir. I don't think most of us are throwing stones at the concept, IF it works for that collector. However, SOME Registry Set participants have an attitude that if your collection is not in a Registry Set its not worth owning, or somehow we are inferior collectors. That is what really rubs the majority of collectors the wrong way regarding Registry Sets.

 

Wow! You are a 60 year collector?! I would love to see your collection! In that case, show it all off, baby!!! Ha, ha!

 

Well that could be true in rare cases, but we don't have to be offended when high rollers look down on our low ball sets. I still love my modest coins, regardless, as I know you do, too.

 

We all have some form of vanity. I think that's why we collect. If not to show off to others than to show off to ourselves. Of course this hobby has some good reasons to not show off too... like not wanting to get robbed. So that keeps the showing off in check. However everyone has that desire to be admired for accomplishment. That's vanity.

 

The other part of the registry is as a reference. I'm only building one serious registry set - peace dollars. Believe it or not, when I bought my MS-64 1928-S Peace dollar, I was able to get a good deal after proving to the seller that it would be well represented, and wasn't just trying to lowball him to flip a coin. I had studied it, knew the market, gave him a fair offer and showed him where it would end up.

Once complete, I will be adding photos and the set will be a reference for others - as well as a benchmark that is online for future purchases and upgrades.

 

I don't know where to begin?

Registry sets are to display your sets in whatever order the TPG's allow.
"Competition" in Registry Sets is not for the faint at heart.
99.99% of Top Registry Set owners are there because they actually OWN the coins they are displaying. Their names are revealed each year when registry awards are given out.

If a coin is purchased and a user tries to enter it into their set only to see that its registered somewhere else, an email and a photo of the coin is all that's needed to get it released and entered into your set. It has to be YOUR photo, not one lifted from Heritage or eBay.

Why would a coin be registered else where when you own it? Simple. Someone registered ownership of the coin where it was graded. It doesn't have to be in a set and then the owner doesn't have to modify his/her photo's when going to sell it in an attempt to protect the integrity of the Set Registry. I used to register EVERY coin I owned until I got tired of forgetting to "unregister" them. It's simple paranoia wrapped with a layer of BS since it's a simple thing to get your cert number registered.

Do folks register coins they do not own? Possible but I've never encountered that situation. And for the record, to state that the Highly Competitive Nature of the Registry compels folks to cheat, is pure ignorance since the folks that are "competing" know who their competition is and usually communicate with them. At least that has been my experience.

To say that the Registry System is flawed is just another baseless paranoid statement since any corrections are easily made and the folks at PCGS that support the Set Registry take their jobs VERY seriously and do not tolerate ANY shady participants.

To say that the Registry Sets "fuel" and "control" prices is another flawed statement once people understand the coin market and the relationship that the registry has with that market. It is actually NO DIFFERENT than coins which have been hyped to the max which later fall out of the publics eye. I cannot begin to remember the number of coins I paid high prices for to include in my registry that, once a higher population coin was found, simply turned into a loser. I recently had a 1976-S DDO FS-101 Kennedy Half Dollar on the market for better than TWO YEARS year at HALF the price I paid for it! And yes, the price guides were right in line with what I paid for it. I eventually let it go for about a third of what I acquired the coin for simply because nobody wanted it! It had NO MARKET Value!

You see, the coins in a set registry are only as valuable as the participants of that registry allow them to be. What this means, is if a registry participant already has one, then s/he doesn't want another one simply for their registry. Even coins that are a grade point or two higher, are difficult to sell to folks that already have one.

"GENERALLY" Speaking, the top 5-10 participants in the registry that are active, will compete against each other for those coins new to the registry. This can artificially inflate the price simply because once those top 5 or 10 have their coins, the market just dies! Dealers which SELL those coins to the registry participants, report the prices to the TPG's which in itself "documents" those inflated prices and since few sales occur after the initial wave of sales (kinda like hyped coins), fewer sales are reported and those artificially high prices remain recorded in the registry and the Price Guides. FOLKS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THIS SIMPLE CONCEPT.

I have a few coins which I paid hundreds for that have prices recorded in the hundreds of dollars which, if they were put in an open auction, would sell for less than $15! Why? Because the "general" (non-registry participating) coin collecting public, either already has them or doesn't even care about them.

"Competitive Registry Markets" are thinner than the Gold Kennedy Half Dollar Market.

My advice to ANYBODY considering opening a registry set, is to open it simply for the enjoyment of publishing your set to the public. IF, you want to get competitive then understand what you are doing and how it all works befire criticizing the system.

Truly "Competitive Registry Set Participants", don't publish the coins within their sets. This keeps their competition in the dark as to what coin to shop for. I HATE the fact that some participants do this!

Folks should do this for the FUN of the experience.

http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/othersets.aspx?m=1968

 

Where's the link to your Set Brett??

 

On one hand you're stating that the Set Registry is Flawed and on the other hand you're dreaming up methods of perpetuating that flaw?

Interesting.

As for the "Leasing" idea, such a thing would probably REQUIRE a "legal" agreement that you could not SELL one of the "leased" coins without the leasee's consent which would probably require some type of notarized and legal documentation and, more than likely, a partial refund of the lease amounts paid to the lessor.

In short, I don't see any serious collector even considering such an action.

I do see, however, that you are simply poking fun at the Set Registry.

 

I started my Registry set because my brother had his collection stolen. I figured any thief taking my coins would also take my computer, so I needed a place online where I could keep records, pictures, and any other useful info to make it more possible to recover anything stolen. I chose NGC because they allow both PCGS and NGC coins, and also allow raw coins (or other TPGs) to be added in non-competitive sets. For me, my sets (competitive or not) is more for an added sense of security.

I'd guess about 90% of my collection is raw, so the competitive sets don't really show what's in my collection. But, I have pictures of every coin in my collection uploaded so I have a reference for myself, or the police if the event of theft ever does occur. I guess I may be a bit delusional thinking pictures might help recover a stolen collection, but every bit of info helps.

 

"Notarized and legal documentation"? Why? Especially the notarized part, that is just silly. If my buddy came to me and wanted to use my coin in his registry set, (assuming I went out and slabbed a coin I own), why couldn't we have any kind of agreement we wanted? Any kind of agreement that was acceptable to the "buyer" of the right would be acceptable. I frankly feel it might be a decent idea. Coins do not return current income. If you have a terrific coin that I was going to own for decades and someone wants to pay you a little something to put it on his registry set, why not? I would if any of mine were in slabs.