Regarding CAC

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by GoldCoinLover, Jun 16, 2009.

  1. Hobo

    Hobo Squirrel Hater

    Fair enough.
     
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  3. CrustyCoins

    CrustyCoins Twilight Photographer

    For the folks that need glasses can you point out where the putty is in the photo? Is it the dots around the date?

    BTW my experience is when a coin is puttied correctly it is difficult to detect until much later when the color of the coin changes differently than the putty.
     
  4. Hobo

    Hobo Squirrel Hater

    ANA Summer Seminar starts in about 10 days. During Week II I will attend a mini-seminar hosted by John Albanese where he will tell us the ins and outs of the CAC stickers. I will be sure to share what I learn from the himself.
     
  5. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Wow, Mike, that doesn't look like a 63...
    I don't know much about putty in coinage, but I'm guessing the thing that looks like wear up top on the headdress, on below liberty on the hair, is that the putty? It looks like wear almost, with those pics, I wouldn't grade it at a 63, that is for sure.
     
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Quite true, there are plenty of puttied coins in NGC and PCGS slabs - a lot more than most people think.
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You are correct to a point if the putty job is done correctly. But an experienced eye can still see it, even if freshly done, by turning the coin in the light. But it is often overlooked or missed and assumed to be due to discoloration or toning. But putty really has a distinctive look and should not be missed or overlooked by professional graders IMO. But rather obviously it is.

    As to where on this coin, I would say it is in quite a few places, the hair, cheek, headdress, neck and fields.
     
  8. ice

    ice Just happy to be here

    OK I am new what is a puttied coin and why do it?
     
  9. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    It is all over the obverse -- in the fields to the left of the indian, on the cheek and in the headdress. The putty has started to flake off, and that's what you're seeing around the date.

    The putty was (presumably) not visible to PCGS when the coin was graded, nor was it visible to the dealer who bought it, nor to me when I did. It was a few years later that it became obvious. Here's a pic of the coin not long after I bought it:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    To get a higher grade and price.

    For example, take an MS 62 coin, putty it, and get an MS 63 or 64 coin.

    $$$ is the answer to your question.
     
  11. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Still the question has yet to be answered about what exactly putty is...
    I took a wild guess and said the spots where I can see wear on the feathers on the headdress, the hair under liberty, and those dots near the date... But I could be wrong.
    I'm guessing using putty on a coin, is used to hide some of the wear and tear, and the marks on it, but how exactly is it used or applied, and how is one to go about doing something like this.
    Just curious, because I've heard of this, but don't really have a clue what it is
     
  12. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    I don't know what it is or how to apply it as I've never done it. My understanding is that it is an opaque substance that hides marks/hairlines that is applied by hand to get higher prices.
     
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That's it pretty much. What is any putty ? It is a substance used to fill in marks and dings to make them disappear. It is the same priciple whether you do it on your woodwork before painting or you do it on your coins.

    The key to being able to recognize putty on a coin is that where it is applied there will be a break in the luster. This is completely unavoidable. And is all but impossible to not get excess putty into the surrounding surfaces and flow lines in the metal (what creates luster) when you are trying to fill a bag mark, ding, hairline or small scratch on a coin. And once there, removing it without destroying the luster is also impossible since luster is such a fragile thing.

    Now putty is applied mainly to gold, very rarely will you ever see it used on silver coins, and I don't recall ever even hearing of it being used on copper. This is because of color mainly, but it is also because there are far fewer collectors and dealers who have the experience with gold to know what they are seeing when they see it. So putty is usually missed by most. But as I said, a professional grader should not miss it.

    But remember what I said above - when trying to recognize if a coin has been puttied or not - look for breaks in the luster. They will be quite small but they will be there. You just have to look for them as you turn a coin in the light.
     
  14. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Thank you Doug, makes a lot more sense to me now :)
     
  15. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    From my own experience, the CAC will provide a "why it didn't sticker" if requested by the one doing the submitting.

    I know that I received "reasons" for all of my coins when sent to CAC.

    I would suggest Kevin seek the advice of a professional or experienced numismatist and/or CAC to help identify the potential issues with the gold coin posted by the OP in another thread.
     
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