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Message:: [QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 1812704, member: 112"]Widely believed ? Let me put it this way, the Red Book is so far off of values that nobody, and I mean nobody, in the coin business would ever use the Red Book for value info. A lot of people misunderstand the concept. First of all, any problem coin -  and that includes those that have been harshly cleaned, have altered surfaces, that are damaged, etc etc etc - cannot be graded. Problem coins have no grade at all - ever. When a TPG puts AU, XF, VF, whatever, on a Genuine or Details slab they are not grading the coin. All they are doing is telling you that the problem coin has details that are similar to a problem free AU, XF, VF, whatever. So no, it does not knock it down one grade because there is no grade. Part of the reason for the confusion over knocking it down a grade comes from the fact that ANACS used to net grade coins. They used to list the problem on the slab, and then assign a net grade based on the severity of the problem for that specific coin. So yes, ANACS, but only ANACS and only during that specific time period, would "knock the grade down". But even they quit doing that because it confused too many people. That's where the idea comes from.[/QUOTE]